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Thread: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    this final expression is pure reich wing/teabagger gold:
    Predictable...Make it a racial thing eh....And preface the whole thing with childish name calling....You libs make it too easy today.

    j-mac
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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Predictable...Make it a racial thing eh....And preface the whole thing with childish name calling....You libs make it too easy today.

    j-mac
    [emphasis added by bubba]

    where did i say this comment was racist?:
    ... monkey business they want running this country
    but since YOU mentioned it ...


    we can now expect an avalanche of cross burners chiming in to claim plausible deniability
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    [emphasis added by bubba]

    where did i say this comment was racist?:

    but since YOU mentioned it ...


    we can now expect an avalanche of cross burners chiming in to claim plausible deniability
    You let your family use your account?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    where did i say this comment was racist?:
    Ok, fair enough then could you please explain what exactly you mean when you use this "reich wing/teabagger" pejorative to describe your debate opponent Mr. Independent?


    j-mac
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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Sounds like a paperwork foul up to me....
    How thrilling for you!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    How thrilling for you!

    Thrilling? What an odd descriptive. No, I would call it minor, made bigger by an over zealous DoJ bent on going after repubs, or non union businesses.

    Pretty clear really.

    J-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Thrilling? What an odd descriptive. No, I would call it minor, made bigger by an over zealous DoJ bent on going after repubs, or non union businesses.

    Pretty clear really.

    J-mac

    If the facts are ignored, anything is possible. Where are the facts to back up your opinion?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    There are all kinds of things you cannot purchase or own in this country. I suggest if you really want to know, google the federal government ban list. Might want to try your state too, sometimes state and federal conflict. Always worth knowing whether or not you can own something, than going to jail and/or Import Customs Enforcement takes it away.
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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony


    The U.S. Lacey Act does not directly address conservation issues but is about obeying all laws of the countries from which wood products are procured. This law reads that you are guilty if you did not observe a law even though you had no knowledge of that law in a foreign country. The U.S. Lacey Act is only applicable when a foreign law has been violated.


    The Federal Department of Justice in Washington, D.C. has suggested that the use of wood from India that is not finished by Indian workers is illegal, not because of U.S. law, but because it is the Justice Department's interpretation of a law in India. (If the same wood from the same tree was finished by Indian workers, the material would be legal.) This action was taken without the support and consent of the government in India.


    The wood the Government seized on August 24 is from a Forest Stewardship Council certified supplier and is FSC Controlled, meaning that the wood complies with the standards of the Forest Stewardship Council, which is an industry-recognized and independent, not-for-profit organization established to promote responsible management of the world's forests. FSC Controlled Wood standards require, among other things, that the wood not be illegally harvested and not be harvested in violation of traditional and civil rights. See www.fsc.org for more information. Gibson has a long history of supporting sustainable and responsible sources of wood and has worked diligently with entities such as the Rainforest Alliance and Greenpeace to secure FSC certified supplies. The wood seized on August 24 satisfied FSC standards.


    In 2009, more than a dozen agents with automatic weapons invaded the Gibson factory in Nashville. The Government seized guitars and a substantial amount of ebony fingerboard blanks from Madagascar. To date, 1 year and 9 months later, criminal charges have NOT been filed, yet the Government still holds Gibson's property. Gibson has obtained sworn statements and documents from the Madagascar government and these materials, which have been filed in federal court, show that the wood seized in 2009 was legally exported under Madagascar law and that no law has been violated. Gibson is attempting to have its property returned in a civil proceeding that is pending in federal court.


    Nearly two years later, and Gibson has yet to be charged for anything in the first raid. Now they get raided again, and more wood seized, and as of yet no charges have been filed. Does something seem amiss here? Why is Gibson the only one being harassed ?



    How and why did this organization approve this sale ( FSC:*About FSC *-Forest Stewardship Council ) there is much more, some of it I can't find any documentation to, but according to the CEO of Gibson, this would all go away, if they just shipped some of there work overseas.


    This is just a case, where one has to ask why? If laws are being broken, then why have no charges been filed from the 2009 raid? One can only summarize that something more is going on here.

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    Re: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Nearly two years later, and Gibson has yet to be charged for anything in the first raid. Now they get raided again, and more wood seized, and as of yet no charges have been filed. Does something seem amiss here? Why is Gibson the only one being harassed ? [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
    Why are law abiding businesses usually not harassed? They are the ones without evidence of having broken the law.


    How and why did this organization approve this sale ( FSC:*About FSC *-Forest Stewardship Council ) there is much more, some of it I can't find any documentation to, but according to the CEO of Gibson, this would all go away, if they just shipped some of there work overseas.
    Criminals always say they are innocent.


    This is just a case, where one has to ask why? If laws are being broken, then why have no charges been filed from the 2009 raid? One can only summarize that something more is going on here.
    From my observations over the last half century, criminal charges do not precede investigations. As documented above, EIA has asked the court to suspend the civil case against Gibson so that criminal charges could be pursued.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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