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Thread: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

  1. #11
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    I know people who work for Gibson in Nashville, this raid has put their jobs at risk. It's incredibly stupid and the raid should have never happened.
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I know people who work for Gibson in Nashville, this raid has put their jobs at risk. It's incredibly stupid and the raid should have never happened.
    If the alleged charges are true, then it was Gibson that put its employee's jobs as risk, which is very stupid of them, it should never have happened.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    I am not sure how I feel about this story, one the one hand I understand the need to protect the trees in a protected forest, but there is a greater issue that should be addressed that threatens the Nation in areas of education, the budget deficit, jobs, and our security.
    So it is your opinion that until we have fixed all the problems "in areas of education, the budget deficit, jobs, and our security," we should suspend all laws?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    So, let me get this straight. America demands other nations enforce our copyright laws but when we try to enforce Indian law's application to Indian products, it's bad or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I know people who work for Gibson in Nashville, this raid has put their jobs at risk. It's incredibly stupid and the raid should have never happened.
    And raiding a drug dealer's meth lab puts his employees' jobs at risk. So?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  5. #15
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Guitars with rosewood and ebony and other endangered species are too valuable to risk to damage in out of country travel. It would be wise to travel abroad with guitars made from wood legal today. In this country, existing uses of endangered woods are grandfathered. The purpose of the laws are to prevent the trafficking of endangered species.

    "A motion filed last month by the U.S. Department of Justice alleges Gibson Guitar knew it was trafficking in endangered timber when it was busted by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in November 2009, reports the Environmental Investigation Agency (EIA)."

    "The federal prosecutors say that while Gibson knew of the questionable timber, and even acknowledged it as such, the guitar-maker went ahead with buying ebony from Nagel, a supplier in Germany. "

    "Madagascar's rainforests have been hard hit by demand for rosewood and ebony. In the aftermath of a March 2009 coup which disposed the island nation's president, Madagascar's rainforest parks were plundered by armed gangs funded by timber traffickers. Illegal logging was accompanied by the rise of a commercial bushmeat market for endangered lemurs and an increase in forest fires."

    Endangered species trafficking: What did Gibson Guitar know?
    If Gibson broke the law in 2009, why were no charges ever filed ???

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





  6. #16
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You don't have to account for the materials in your guitar in this country, existing uses are grandfathered. However, it is illegal to traffic endangered species which is what Gibson is alleged to to have done. See Post #5 above.
    Not according to the Lacey Act:

    In the meantime, those who own Gibson guitars, and potentially even guitars of other brands, may want to prepare themselves for potential targeting by the federal government as well. The vague wording of the US Department of Agriculture's (USDA) Lacey Act of 2008, which is the law that was somehow used to warrant the Gibson raids, places all guitar owners and resellers in the cross fire of potential federal scrutiny.

    "According to [The Lacey Act], if you bought a guitar from us and you resell it, you are criminally liable," stated Juszkiewicz. "Everyone who touches the product, the store owner who sells that guitar, is criminally liable. It doesn't matter whether you knew or not that there was some issue here. It's a pretty dangerous precedent in my opinion."

    Coverage in the Calgary Herald adds that guitar owners who do not have proper documentation for their instrument could potentially face its confiscation if the Feds feel as though something about the guitar is in violation of the Lacey Act.

    It does not matter if the guitar was produced in full accordance with the law -- if the government decides that some aspect of the guitar is in violation of the Lacey Act, it could theoretically seize it or any other wood-containing instrument at airports, country borders, and other areas, and even arrest the instrument owners in the process.
    Learn more: Federal gestapo illegally raid Gibson Guitar factories, arbitrarily confiscate millions of dollars worth of wood used to make instruments

    Reportedly, Juskiewicz, CEO of Gibson is a big Republican donor, while his primary competitor at C.F. Martin is a Democratic donor. Evidently Martin uses the exact same wood in their guitars but have not been raided. Coincidence ???

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





  7. #17
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    If Gibson broke the law in 2009, why were no charges ever filed ???
    From what I've read, it says alleged charges. I don't know the outcome of the case. Perhaps they needed more evidence and that was the reason for this raid.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Not according to the Lacey Act:


    Learn more: Federal gestapo illegally raid Gibson Guitar factories, arbitrarily confiscate millions of dollars worth of wood used to make instruments

    Reportedly, Juskiewicz, CEO of Gibson is a big Republican donor, while his primary competitor at C.F. Martin is a Democratic donor. Evidently Martin uses the exact same wood in their guitars but have not been raided. Coincidence ???
    You get your news from the "naturalnews blog," They determine what is legal and what is not in your mind? I'll wait for the rule of law to run its course just the same if you don't mind.

    While we are waiting, please cite the cases where someone in this country has been busted for having an old guitar with rosewood and ebony?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #19
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    While we are waiting, please cite the cases where someone in this country has been busted for having an old guitar with rosewood and ebony?

    1.) Obama jokes about using the tax code to punish his enemies.
    2.) Obama sends agents to raid Gibsons but not his competitors who use the very same wood. Gibson CEO donates to the Republicans, competitor CEO to the Democrats.

    To your question, is this close enough:


    Consider the recent experience of Pascal Vieillard, whose Atlanta-area company, A-440 Pianos, imported several antique Bösendorfers. Mr. Vieillard asked officials at the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species how to fill out the correct paperwork—which simply encouraged them to alert U.S. Customs to give his shipment added scrutiny.

    There was never any question that the instruments were old enough to have grandfathered ivory keys. But Mr. Vieillard didn't have his paperwork straight when two-dozen federal agents came calling.

    Facing criminal charges that might have put him in prison for years, Mr. Vieillard pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor count of violating the Lacey Act, and was handed a $17,500 fine and three years probation.

  10. #20
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Um... I guess I'm glad that I play a Fender...
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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