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Thread: US agents raid Gibson Guitar over ebony

  1. #101
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    In sense your right, my real complaint is with congress and the ineptness they perform everyday. My complaint is what you state and the EPA is just a tool I wish to take away, it is just a avenue for congress to subvert our constitution and rights. I have many problems with our government and the over reaching powers that it has, I pick no sides except the side of what the constitution states, hence the term, "very conservative" or lets say contitutionalist. This isn't a party or presidential incident or complaint, it's more or less a complaint of the militarization of our law enforcement and it's over reaching powers and violations of our constitutional rights, along with their it's mentality that it's above the law.
    While I disagree with your position on the extent of govt power, I agree that in some areas the govt has over-reached. Though I have a far more expansive view on the role of govt that you, I recognize the dangers of a govt with unfettered power to use force. This is a problem that both parties enthusiatically encourage, which is why I associate with neither. However, the way to rein in these abuses is not by making ideological arguments, but arguments of a more practical nature.

    The american people reject oppresive states. Meanwhile, we spend hundreds of billions incarcerating people for minor offenses, and as a result we jail a larger segment of our population that so-called "police states" like China and North Korea. And that isn't counting those under govt supervision (ie probation, parole, and various criminal registries). We have confiscatory laws that impoverish people who are guilty of no crime, and the result has not been security; it makes all of subject to the whims of arbitrary forces with little to no chance of successfully seeking redress from the very state that oppresses us.

    IOW, though we come from opposite ends of the political spectrum we have much in common. As americans, we share the opposition to concentrations of power which has always been the greatest threat to our liberty.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  2. #102
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    lol

    I oppose all agencies so the less the better.
    How about the Depts of Defense, State and the Treasury? Those have been with us from the beginning our republic.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  3. #103
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    So, let me get this straight. America demands other nations enforce our copyright laws but when we try to enforce Indian law's application to Indian products, it's bad or something.
    Copyright laws are protected by international agreements.
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  4. #104
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Well the problem is this (Feds go after Gibson Guitars — RT)



    Thus, the US went and raided Gibson due to them breaking Indian laws, not American ones. Thus this brings up the questions Will the US start enforcing the laws of other nations in America?
    and 2) Just how much power does the Federal government have?
    So the feds are enforcing Indian Law? I believe that it is none of the feds damn business what Indian laws are broken and should not be trying to enforce the laws of other nations on US soil. Perhaps all those states trying to pass laws that ban judges from citing foreign and Islamic laws should make that apply to law enforcement officials as well.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  5. #105
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    How about the Depts of Defense, State and the Treasury? Those have been with us from the beginning our republic.
    I support an overhaul of their function -but the basics come from necessity.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
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  6. #106
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Copyright laws are protected by international agreements.
    I don't think copy right laws have been broken, non the less armed law enforcement wasn't necessary, a simple audit or investigation would have sufficed.

  7. #107
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Well I just watched this on the news, this one day raid by the armed EPA pirates just cost Gibson about million dollars and one week being off line and no charges have even be filed by the fed..WTF. Gibson will have it's day in court to proclaim it's innocents, I thought in this country one is innocent until proven guilty and the burden of proof is placed on the government. So Gibson until their day in courtwill have to play along and probably take a heavy hit.

  8. #108
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    So the feds are enforcing Indian Law? I believe that it is none of the feds damn business what Indian laws are broken and should not be trying to enforce the laws of other nations on US soil. Perhaps all those states trying to pass laws that ban judges from citing foreign and Islamic laws should make that apply to law enforcement officials as well.
    No, the Feds aren't enforcing Indian copyright law. We signed a treaty with a number of nations agreeing that we all would enforce copyrights and patents, including patents and copyrights granted in those other nations. The Constitution says that treaties that we sign have the force of law. However, this treaty isn't what is at issue in this Gibson. This case is about a US law that forbids the importation of materials derived from engangered animals and plants
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #109
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    Well I just watched this on the news, this one day raid by the armed EPA pirates just cost Gibson about million dollars and one week being off line and no charges have even be filed by the fed..WTF. Gibson will have it's day in court to proclaim it's innocents, I thought in this country one is innocent until proven guilty and the burden of proof is placed on the government. So Gibson until their day in courtwill have to play along and probably take a heavy hit.
    We'll have to remember this the next time a Libbo asks, "whatta ya mean Obama killed jobs?".
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  10. #110
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    Re: Is your guitar DOJ approved?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    Well I just watched this on the news, this one day raid by the armed EPA pirates just cost Gibson about million dollars and one week being off line and no charges have even be filed by the fed..WTF. Gibson will have it's day in court to proclaim it's innocents, I thought in this country one is innocent until proven guilty and the burden of proof is placed on the government. So Gibson until their day in courtwill have to play along and probably take a heavy hit.
    Innocent until proven guilt has nothing to do with this. When someone is accused of a crime, there must be probable cause. Once probable cause has been established, the state has the power to confiscate evidence and even incarcerate the accused. You don't really think that we should let accused killers roam free until their trial do you? Should Loghner (the man who shot Rep Giffords and others) be released until he's sane enough to stand trial? Should the police not be allowed to confiscate a gun in murder cases, or should we let the accused murderer roam free and give him back his gun?

    If there is no probable cause, Gibson can go to court immediately, petition to have the case dismissed on the grounds that there is no probable, and if successful, all their possessions will be returned to them. That's how it works. In fact, that's how it has always worked.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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