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Thread: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    I have asked you a plethora of questions today, and you have yet to respond to one of them. It is not a conversation if you fail to address my questions; instead it is a rant.

    We really cannot cut government spending without invoking a massive recession worse than that of 2009.

    Remember, Y=C+I+G+NX If net exports is negative, any cuts in government spending greater than the absolute value of NX will INSTANTANEOUSLY result in a dollar for dollar loss in Y (or GDP). If you have the ability to negate this comment, then by all means go for it.
    That is your opinion, and sorry but believe I have answered your questions probably to the same level you answered mine. We have a 14.6 trillion dollar debt in a country with a yearly GDP of about 15 trillion. Budget deficits the past two years have exceeded 3 trillion dollars and that doesn't seem to be enough for you. When is enough enough in your world? Why would you reward politicians instead of taxpayers by raising taxes or more govt. spending that does nothing but fuel ineffeciencies. You seem to promote the "too big to fail" argument and in this case big is the Federal govt. tell me how cutting govt. spending is going to create a massive recession? Import exports are a very small percentage of GDP thus cuts in govt. spending will mean lower deficits thus fewer dollars going to debt service and more revenue on the part of the consumers.

    Your policies would be better suited for the socialist countries of Europe and the old Soviet Union. I understand the consumer economy today which you seem to ignore. Consumers keeping more of their money drive private business and creates jobs. We did quite well prior to having a 3.7 trillion dollar govt so what has changed? Govt. control has changed, increased dependence has changed,. That has to be reversed.

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    That is your opinion, and sorry but believe I have answered your questions probably to the same level you answered mine. We have a 14.6 trillion dollar debt in a country with a yearly GDP of about 15 trillion. Budget deficits the past two years have exceeded 3 trillion dollars and that doesn't seem to be enough for you. When is enough enough in your world? Why would you reward politicians instead of taxpayers by raising taxes or more govt. spending that does nothing but fuel ineffeciencies. You seem to promote the "too big to fail" argument and in this case big is the Federal govt. tell me how cutting govt. spending is going to create a massive recession? Import exports are a very small percentage of GDP thus cuts in govt. spending will mean lower deficits thus fewer dollars going to debt service and more revenue on the part of the consumers.

    Your policies would be better suited for the socialist countries of Europe and the old Soviet Union. I understand the consumer economy today which you seem to ignore. Consumers keeping more of their money drive private business and creates jobs. We did quite well prior to having a 3.7 trillion dollar govt so what has changed? Govt. control has changed, increased dependence has changed,. That has to be reversed.
    The problem is that, paradoxically, we cannot cut spending in any significant way without making the deficit worse.

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The problem is that, paradoxically, we cannot cut spending in any significant way without making the deficit worse.
    How does cutting spending make the deficit worse? this ought to be good

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    That is your opinion, and sorry but believe I have answered your questions probably to the same level you answered mine.We have a 14.6 trillion dollar debt in a country with a yearly GDP of about 15 trillion. Budget deficits the past two years have exceeded 3 trillion dollars and that doesn't seem to be enough for you. When is enough enough in your world? Why would you reward politicians instead of taxpayers by raising taxes or more govt. spending that does nothing but fuel ineffeciencies. You seem to promote the "too big to fail" argument and in this case big is the Federal govt. tell me how cutting govt. spending is going to create a massive recession? Import exports are a very small percentage of GDP thus cuts in govt. spending will mean lower deficits thus fewer dollars going to debt service and more revenue on the part of the consumers.

    Your policies would be better suited for the socialist countries of Europe and the old Soviet Union. I understand the consumer economy today which you seem to ignore. Consumers keeping more of their money drive private business and creates jobs. We did quite well prior to having a 3.7 trillion dollar govt so what has changed? Govt. control has changed, increased dependence has changed,. That has to be reversed.
    You failed to answer:

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    If the government does not borrow that money and spend it, it would not have been spent! Remember... A: {C+I+G+NX=Y} B: {C+I+G(1-stimulus)+NX=Y-stimulus.} With these identities in mind, which is higher; A or B?
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    How long would this take? When asset deflation begins to take foot, it can create enormous inertia that wipes out a great deal of wealth for a generation. For example. Lets say the U.S. economy was to contract by 20% in one year. How many years would it take for the U.S. to reach its previous output number at an average growth rate of 5% per year (which is more than generous)? Better yet, how much would the US economy have to grow to reach its previous level of output?
    Lets start with these two questions.

    As to your post: I have already proven it mathematically

    Holding I, C, and NX constant. GDP= C+I+G+NX, when you cut spending with NX being negative, GDP is redefined as GDP-spending cut = C+I+G(1-spending cut)+NX. If you were to actually answer the questions i ask, i would not have repeat basic concepts to which you continue to question.
    Last edited by Kushinator; 09-07-11 at 02:08 PM.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    How does cutting spending make the deficit worse? this ought to be good
    Because cutting spending leads to cutting jobs. There is a negative multiplier effect associated with such cuts when there is a large output gap.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    [QUOTE=Goldenboy219;1059782088]
    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    That is your opinion, and sorry but believe I have answered your questions probably to the same level you answered mine.

    You failed to answer:





    Lets start with these two question.

    As to your post: I have already proven it mathematically

    Holding I, C, and NX constant. GDP= C+I+G+NX, when you cut spending with NX being negative, GDP is redefined as GDP-spending cut = C+I+G(1-spending cut)+NX. If you were to actually answer the questions i ask, i would not have repeat basic concepts to which you continue to question.
    If the govt. doesn't borrow that money and spend it we wouldn't have as much debt and debt service. You seem to believe the govt. is the answer, I disagree as govt. has taken on roles it has no business in doing.

    Sorry, but I don't really care about your formulas but I do care about reality. Consumption is 2/3rds of GDP, Net Exports has been negative as we have continued to run a trade deficit and that reduces GDP now. Govt spending is about 20% of GDP and we can do with less of that which will be offset by consumer spending and more attractive job markets.

    We don't live in a socialist economy that you are trying to create here. Business can do quite well especially the private sector small businesses without massive govt. spending and that is where the jobs are created. The only viable alternative now is to cut spending and increase economic activity through incentives to the private sector. Cutting corporate tax rates will do that and make us more competitive with foreign countries and would also stablize the value of the dollar making our products more attractive overseas

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    How do you "create" jobs when people don't have money in their pockets and their jobs have been sent overseas?
    This is the conundrum in which we find ourselves. The corporations have shot themselves in the foot. In order for them to make money, people must buy their products. If the people have no money, the corporations don't make money. In the end, greed makes fools out of otherwise intelligent people.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Because cutting spending leads to cutting jobs. There is a negative multiplier effect associated with such cuts when there is a large output gap.
    It may cut govt. jobs but those need to cut because they are offset by the debt they create. we have a private sector economy, not a socialist economy at least not yet. Increase consumption and increase demand for products thus increase jobs in the private sector. Any benefit from govt. jobs is offset by the expense to the taxpayers for those jobs. Not so with the private sector.

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    A big Amen Barbarian. The Republicans usually get drunk on tax cuts and the Democrats get drunk on spending. We had a situation where both got drunk on spending and tax cuts while only giving token resistance to each other to put on a show for their constituents. That equals disaster. And people don't talk about NAFTA and other free trade agreements enough. We need to admit those agreements have been nothing but poison for us.

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    You failed to answer:





    Lets start with these two questions.

    As to your post: I have already proven it mathematically

    Holding I, C, and NX constant. GDP= C+I+G+NX, when you cut spending with NX being negative, GDP is redefined as GDP-spending cut = C+I+G(1-spending cut)+NX. If you were to actually answer the questions i ask, i would not have repeat basic concepts to which you continue to question.
    I've tried to figure out a way to answer your mathematical formula, but I can't. I also am not sure it really has much relevance here. First how can you or anyone just nominally hold “I” (investment)
    “C” (consumption) and “NX” constant ? What happens if like recently our exports rise ?

    How could investments be held constant ? Or for that matter consumption?

    I'm sorry maybe I'm just not understanding... because it just seems that altho what you are saying maybe true today, 30 days, 6months, or a year from now that could change.
    Last edited by The Barbarian; 09-07-11 at 02:55 PM.

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