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Thread: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It certaily has because it has become too expensive to do business in the United States. Ask thoose who are leaving, the ones who are being forced to pay that $33 an hour you mentioned.

    Now Boeing, as one of the latest examples, might even leave because the government is restricting their movement. And they'll be leaving those $33 an hour jobs behind.
    Labor unions are weaker today than they've been in decades. You can't even make a correlation argument for the decline in prosperity and union activity. The correlation argument would reach the exact opposite conclusion.


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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Trade can be mutually beneficial for countries as long as they are (1) sufficiently competitive and (2) leverage areas of comparative advantage. When countries leverage what they do best, as opposed to trying to do everything, they can strengthen their advantages in those crucial areas. At the same time, by shifting investment away from areas in which they are not competitive and have little prospect of being competitive, they can increase returns on capital for existing economic activity and free up capital for investment in emergent areas that create tomorrow's competitive advantages. Finally, because consumers enjoy greater choice (range of products and also product prices), consumer welfare benefits from trade. In the long-run, that approach can lead to stronger growth and more jobs, not less. A recent case in point is Germany. With its world-leading manufacturing sector, Germany has been able to leverage global growth and, as a result, suffer less harm than many other developed countries during the recent recession/financial crisis and enjoy a faster jobs recovery/higher levels of employment than the U.S., despite the major structural problems still confronting Europe.

    Clearly, there are also some downsides. Not every industry is world-class competitive in every country. Hence, dislocations can result from trade. Policy makers need to focus on transitions, improving a country's factors (especially human capital in today's increasingly knowledge-intensive/information-oriented macroeconomic environment) and offer a viable transition strategy to mitigate the impact of temporary dislocations. A country should not seek to prop up industries that have no prospect of becoming world-class competitive (a necessity when those firms must compete with such rivals). Doing so only raises costs to consumers (price and quality trade-offs) and undermines consumer welfare.
    The loss of comparative advantage is addressed by global labor arbitrage. Cries for a new Bretton Woods are only a cry for solutions to the negatives of cheap labor trade. There has been no economic theory that addresses the negatives of cheap labor globalism. Friedman sold us on the belief that trade deficits would not be detrimental ... thanks Chicago. Well we passed Aug 2nd by taking on more loans ... because we had no choice. The PIIGS in Europe are all in a mess. Germany has had a current account surplus to help them along with a touch of ordoliberalism. Also they had better banking regs and had no run up of hard assets / housing during the housing mess. While not protectionist ... they use protectionist measures and work closely with a highly paid union force. They get it right.

    Looking to history and American mercantilism, I can assure you there would be no industries to prop up without the protection of tariffs. Viewing government as a business ... I have to wonder why they prop up the China trade division at a cost of hundreds of billions a year. As if America some how has the economic might, to withstand the years of the drain on the economy while we wait for Chinas cost to rise, that we might benefit from comparative advantage. At some point America has to stop exporting GDP and job growth ... when that will be ... I don't know.
    If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. Patton
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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Labor unions are weaker today than they've been in decades. You can't even make a correlation argument for the decline in prosperity and union activity. The correlation argument would reach the exact opposite conclusion.
    The Unions weren't powerful enough in Detroit, huh?

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The Unions weren't powerful enough in Detroit, huh?
    I guess they weren't powerful enough to force management not to make crap cars that no one wanted to buy.

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    [QUOTE=Grant;1059779682]

    So you haven't noticed any busnesses moving overseas or the economy becoming mired in debt?


    Sure. While you have that job. But how long will that sublime notion last?


    Leftists should always avoid attempts at irony and analogies. Just try to stick to the facts and work from there.
    So why did jobs leave? Proven low wages overseas, or proven good governmental regulations?

    How does an economy which exported GDP not have problems?

    Go back and look at your response ... it addresses nothing to the regulation issue. for example.

    If I had typed " It's really cold here this summer ... summers are usually a few degrees hotter."

    Your reply: So you haven't noticed any busnesses moving overseas or the economy becoming mired in debt?

    What is that? Businesses moved ... OK i say it was because of weather ... "So you haven't noticed any busnesses moving overseas or the economy becoming mired in debt?"

    You said nothing about regulations and finished with the obligatory lefty comment

    SHOW ME ONE PART OF YOUR RESPONSE THAT ADDRESSED MY POST.
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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael H View Post
    The loss of comparative advantage is addressed by global labor arbitrage. Cries for a new Bretton Woods are only a cry for solutions to the negatives of cheap labor trade. There has been no economic theory that addresses the negatives of cheap labor globalism. Friedman sold us on the belief that trade deficits would not be detrimental ... thanks Chicago. Well we passed Aug 2nd by taking on more loans ... because we had no choice. The PIIGS in Europe are all in a mess. Germany has had a current account surplus to help them along with a touch of ordoliberalism. Also they had better banking regs and had no run up of hard assets / housing during the housing mess. While not protectionist ... they use protectionist measures and work closely with a highly paid union force. They get it right.

    Looking to history and American mercantilism, I can assure you there would be no industries to prop up without the protection of tariffs. Viewing government as a business ... I have to wonder why they prop up the China trade division at a cost of hundreds of billions a year. As if America some how has the economic might, to withstand the years of the drain on the economy while we wait for Chinas cost to rise, that we might benefit from comparative advantage. At some point America has to stop exporting GDP and job growth ... when that will be ... I don't know.
    Germany is not a protectionist country. Quite the opposite.

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael H View Post
    The loss of comparative advantage is addressed by global labor arbitrage. Cries for a new Bretton Woods are only a cry for solutions to the negatives of cheap labor trade. There has been no economic theory that addresses the negatives of cheap labor globalism. Friedman sold us on the belief that trade deficits would not be detrimental ... thanks Chicago. Well we passed Aug 2nd by taking on more loans ... because we had no choice. The PIIGS in Europe are all in a mess. Germany has had a current account surplus to help them along with a touch of ordoliberalism. Also they had better banking regs and had no run up of hard assets / housing during the housing mess. While not protectionist ... they use protectionist measures and work closely with a highly paid union force. They get it right.
    Several quick thoughts:

    1) Although trade deficits might matter less in the short-run, they do matter in the long-run. Chronic sizable imbalances are a problem.

    2) As for August 2, the U.S. needed to raise its debt ceiling. To fail to do so would have been reckless as it would have imposed abrupt measures to immediately balance the budget and cover debt payments (interest and, if necessary, a share of principal). The deal attached to the debt ceiling hike was, IMO, suboptimal.

    3) Stronger banking regulations, particularly with respect to capital, are not necessarily a bad thing, even if they constrain lending in the short-term. In increasing part, U.S. growth had become tied to larger increases in debt (during the closing years of the housing bubble, domestic nonfinancial debt was rising more than $3 for every $1 increase in GDP. That's not a sustainable model). Canada's banking system, where capital and lending standards are stronger, emerged largely unscathed from the turmoil associated with the recent financial crisis.

    4) A lesson--albeit one that was forgotten prior to the recent recession--is that there is no such thing as "good" inflation or "bad" inflation. Whether one is dealing with consumer price inflation or asset price inflation, neither is wholly benign. The housing bubble is a classic illustration of how asset price inflation can be a very bad thing, especially if it is tied to excessive debt. I tend to agree with IMF research that more robust monetary policy approaches should consider asset prices in the overall rubric of inflation.

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    [QUOTE=AdamT;1059779683]
    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post

    You're still just flinging out baseless innuendo. I wonder why? Could it be that the states with the highest poverty rates are actually southern conservative states? Actually, it could be. http://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/11s0708.pdf

    I notice that Texas is right up there with West Virginia. Congratulations, Governor Perry.
    You probably ought to take a geography lesson to see where TX is but while you are doing that, suggest you check the Fortune 500 Companies moving to TX and the massive growth in the state. As usual you jump on articles and statistic which you believe support your point of view even though you support a failed ideology much worse than what could ever go on in TX

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Germany is not a protectionist country. Quite the opposite.
    Germany is a sneeky protectionist ... cooperation between unions, government and banks. I'll find more details later ... however I read an article this week and I didn't bookmark it.


    Germany's protectionist bombshell – Telegraph Blogs
    Germany's protectionist bombshell

    By Edmund Conway Economics Last updated: September 28th, 2009

    10 Comments Comment on this article

    The trouble with protectionism is that both the efforts to prevent it and the disastrous effects it can have have been painted as boring. So often do politicians around the world drone on about confronting the threat that it has become increasingly difficult to convince people of its importance. I can tell you that protectionism is, as I see it, the biggest worry I have about the next couple of years, both economically and diplomatically. I just worry that we’ve become anaesthetised to such comments.

    I wrote about protectionism in my column last week, so no need to repeat myself, except to give an update. I mentioned that although there are growing examples of the rise in “traditional” protectionism – stuff like trade barriers, subsidies for domestic companies and so on – the real threat remains the more invisible, insidious element of financial protectionism. This works in two ways: first, that governments around the world, by dint of supporting their banks, are (by helping them survive) giving them anti-competitive support to the detriment of foreign competitors (particularly those with less generous governments ). Second, that governments are invariably ordering their banks to withdraw cash and operations from overseas in order to fund more lending for domestic businesses and consumers.

    The first is perhaps unavoidable; the second is inexcusable in a globalised world.

    And yet it is happening at alarming pace. There is anecdotal evidence: there were explicit clauses when Royal Bank of Scotland that stipulated that it should ensure more cash was lent to domestic customers. There is statistical evidence. The latest Bank for International Settlements quarterly report showed that the flows of cash around the world have continued to slide.

    But I fear that far worse is yet to come. Take Germany as an example. Following the election result, it looks rather likely that the new government will order an overhaul of the way the country’s Landesbank system works. These banks expanded rather too far and too fast into Eastern Europe and Britain (remember West LB and how it became a major player in the world of property finance not so long ago?). According to Hans Redeker of BNP Paribas, one of the likely stipulations the new government will impose is for the banks to withdraw their capital from UK assets and spend the proceeds on financing domestic companies. The amount could be very substantial, if this chart below is anything to go by. It shows that although lending activity throughout the eurozone has dropped like a stone, this hasn’t coincinded (yet) with any cutting of foreign assets.
    EMU: Imploding credit growth suggest net external assets to decline

    EMU: Imploding credit growth suggest net external assets to decline

    Redeker’s insight (as a currency buff) is that this will cause the pound to fall even further against the euro (until, that is, people realise next year how much of a mess the continent’s own economy is in) but my concern is more deep-seated.
    If Redeker’s prediction about Germany is the case for other countries around the world, the likelihood is that we are only halfway through this collective purge of overseas assets. And as country after country follows suit, it will result in broader protectionism. As the BIS said in its annual report a few months ago, “after seeing foreign-owned banks pare back activity during the crisis, host country governments may become less sanguine about allowing outsiders to operate on their soil… And, by reducing the ease with which capital moves across borders, financial protectionism would shrink trade in goods and services and thus moderate growth and development.”

    What I still find staggering is that governments around the world are being allowed to get away with this kind of protectionism without any apparent resistence from either companies or economic institutions like the IMF or OECD.

    As it happens I am off to the IMF’s annual meeting this week so will be sending through plenty of updates around the events this week. It promises to be a very interesting meeting indeed. The US used last week’s G20 to pledge to ensure the international monetary system is no longer allowed to generate the imbalances that caused this crisis. But precisely how do they do this? Hopefully we might get some answers this week.

    flandersnews.be: Opel: Is this German protectionism?
    General Motors Co. is selling a large stake in the European Unit Opel to Canadian auto parts maker Magna International and Russia's Sberbank. Flemish Prime Minister Kris Peeters is going to take the issue of how the German government handled the sale with European Union authorities. Federal Finance Minister Didier Reynders suspects German protectionism and is asking for an investigation.
    Industry lobbies against German protectionism
    Industry lobbies against German protectionism

    Catherine Craig
    26 Jan 2009

    Private equity firms are lobbying against proposed changes to German law that could prevent foreigners buying more than a quarter of local companies and stir fears of protectionism as the global economy slows.

    The German Private Equity and Venture Capital Association, the BVK, with international buyout firm Permira, will attend a hearing today to defend against proposed German legislation that could discriminate against private equity investors with non-European Union-based funds.

    Under the proposals, buying more than 25% of any German company by an investor with funds based outside the EU or the European Free Trade Association could be blocked by the German authorities on national or social security grounds.

    Rainer Traugott, a partner at law firm Linklaters in Munich, who is representing the BVK at today’s hearing, said: “Under the proposed legislation, the German Ministry of Economics could investigate any transaction up to three months after it is signed, with a further two months to decide whether or not to prohibit it, placing great uncertainty in the way of deal processes.”

    The proposed legislation is particularly worrying for private equity firms with funds based outside the European Union in offshore tax havens.

    Permira, whose funds are based in Guernsey but which has stakes in German companies, including media group ProSiebenSat, is understood to be attending the hearing to seek clarification on whether it would be affected by the new rules, as Guernsey is technically excluded from EU law.
    Transatlantic Politics Blog Archive German protectionism against Nokia
    German protectionism at its best: Finish corporation Nokia is a "subsidy locust" and promotes "caravan capitalism" for having decided to move its 2,300 employees-factory from Germany to Romania, where workers cost 10 times less. Such are the claims made by German politicians and trade unions.

    Even the European Commission promised some help from "anti-globalization" funds for the angry German workers, who are backed by influential trade unions and populist politicians. The European Parliament got into the act as well by launching an investigation into the alleged abuse of EU funds in relocating to Romania. Everyone seems to forget that Nokia is the LAST mobile phone manufacturer to leave Germany, after Motorola and BenQ Siemens did the same over the past two years. And Nokia is not moving to China, like everyone else, but stays in the EU and gives a fair chance of development to Romania, the poorest member of the club after Bulgaria.

    Yet principles such as "freedom of goods, labor and services" within the EU are easily forgotten when it comes to German protectionism.
    The cost of German protectionism | Reviewed-Casinos.com
    The price of protectionism paid by German online gambling company Jaxx AG, was showcased again this week when the company announced financial results that included a consolidated loss of Euro 16.9 million, largely due to the implementation of the German State Treaty On Gaming.
    The Treaty shields the German states which monopolise gambling in the country from fair competition by private companies.

    Protectionism rolls through Europe
    Germany: quietly waiting

    Germany, an actor rather than a victim in the current take-over wave, has remained relatively quiet on protectionism. Foreign investors in general face few hurdles here. Five years ago, British Vodafone took over Mannesmann, the mobile phone company.

    There are certain rules: the highly controversial “VW law” makes sure the German state of Niedersachsen can retain its stake in car maker Volkswagen. Other regulations prevent private companies from taking over Germany’s Sparkassen banks, and the military sector is subject to cautious government scrutiny.

    Germany tends to take a position somewhere between Great Britain and France.

    Opinion: Europe and the Protectionism Trap - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International
    Protectionism Made in Germany

    The German economic stimulus program is designed to primarily benefit the German auto industry. It just happens to be structured somewhat more cleverly than the French plan. If we had sent the €50 billion ($65 billion) to the people in the form of tax rebate checks, French and Italian exporters would have benefited from our program.
    If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. Patton
    New opinions are always suspected, and usually opposed, without any other reason but because they are not already common. John Locke

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post

    You probably ought to take a geography lesson to see where TX is but while you are doing that, suggest you check the Fortune 500 Companies moving to TX and the massive growth in the state. As usual you jump on articles and statistic which you believe support your point of view even though you support a failed ideology much worse than what could ever go on in TX
    So? Texas still ranks among the highest states when it comes to poverty. And how about addressing Adam's point that most of the worst states are run by Republican governors? Some for decades.

    41. Tennessee (Republican)
    42. Alabama (Republican)
    43. North Carolina (Democrat)
    44. Kentucky (Democrat)
    45. Texas (Republican)
    46. Georgia (Republican)
    47. Arkansas (Democrat)
    48. New Mexico (Republican)
    49. Arizona (Republican)
    50. Mississippi (Republican)


    Poverty Rate by Household Income - Kaiser State Health Facts

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