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Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

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Grant said:
You haven't noticed government intruding in free market areas? Have you been asleep for the past few decades?

Rise and shine!
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The so-called free market caused the problem, let Wall Street and banks do whatever they want to do.

Rise and shine! There no such animal as a free market. Every game in this world has rules and regulations.
 
Grant said:
You haven't noticed government intruding in free market areas? Have you been asleep for the past few decades?

Rise and shine!
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As old as I am I have never seen a free market. As I have aged it "feels" like markets have been deregulated and more competition introduced. I don't keep score ... just thinking of markets when I was younger. The US was 9th in the world on the Economic freedom index ... which isn't shabby. Where do you feel there is more intrusion in the market?
 
Conservative said:
Does this change you opinion of who caused the problems?

http://www.prmia.org/pdf/Case_Studies/Fannie_Mae_and_Freddie_Mac_090911_v2.pdf
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Con, did you read any of this stuff?


Later that year, President George W. Bush signed the American Dream Downpayment Act, a new
program that provided grants to help home buyers with downpayment and closing costs. The act
authorised $200 million dollars per year for 2004‐2007.

In 2004, the 2000 rules were dropped and high‐risk loans were again counted toward affordable
housing goals.

This was in the assumption that Fannie Mae's enforcement of their underwriting standards for
standard conforming mortgages would also provide safe and stable means of lending to buyers who
lacked a prime credit rating. The market continued to perceive that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
had an implicit government guarantee which gave them the ability to issue debt at lower rates than
would otherwise have been possible.
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Thanks, I'm going to bookmark it for future reference.
 
pbrauer said:
The so-called free market caused the problem, let Wall Street and banks do whatever they want to do.
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As a matter of fact there were many rtegulations in place but the government began meddlinng in the mortgage market, amom=ng other things, and things began to fall apart.
Rise and shine! There no such animal as a free market. Every game in this world has rules and regulations.
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We all need laws and regulations, but Medicare, Medicaid, as two examples, are government programs that Americans got along without for almost two centuries. Then they became essential and Americans became hooked. Now if you get Obamacare the health system is screwed as well. You really believe y0u don;t have Socialism?

Are you hoping it does for the United States what it did for Europe, the Soviet Union, and so on?
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Michael H said:
As old as I am I have never seen a free market. As I have aged it "feels" like markets have been deregulated and more competition introduced. I don't keep score ... just thinking of markets when I was younger. The US was 9th in the world on the Economic freedom index ... which isn't shabby. Where do you feel there is more intrusion in the market?
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In which areas do you feel there are fewer regulations than in the past?

The banking industry? Health? Farming? Fishing? Education? Advertising? The Media?
 
Grant said:
As a matter of fact there were many rtegulations in place but the government began meddlinng in the mortgage market, amom=ng other things, and things began to fall apart.


We all need laws and regulations, but Medicare, Medicaid, as two examples, are government programs that Americans got along without for almost two centuries. Then they became essential and Americans became hooked. Now if you get Obamacare the health system is screwed as well. You really believe y0u don;t have Socialism?

Are you hoping it does for the United States what it did for Europe, the Soviet Union, and so on?
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Perhaps you should read a little more history. The poverty rate among America's elderly was scandalous before Medicare and Social Security.
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pbrauer said:
................
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So that is what you picked out of the article? LOL, how typical. Notice any problems with Carter, Clinton, or the subprime problem in 2007? Oh, by the way who controlled Congress in 2007? 200 million dollars is a drop in the bucket in the overall scope of things so keep playing that one up which ignoring history including Carter and Clinton.
 
Grant said:
In which areas do you feel there are fewer regulations than in the past?

The banking industry? Health? Farming? Fishing? Education? Advertising? The Media?
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An unbiased report of governmental regulations for OECD countries rates us among the best.


www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/Economics/fpryor1/Nicoletti Pryor Essay.pdf
To provide a clearer picture of these cross-country differences in regulation ithat are identified by the joint consideration of the three overall measures of regulation (S-KKZ, ONSB: P+L and S-P: Total), we employed a hierarchical cluster analysis using Ward’s methodology to group countries according to the similarity of objective and subjective assessments. Two large
groups of countries emerge quite clearly: a relatively “liberal” group including all English-speaking countries, as well as Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands and Switzerland; and a relatively “regulated” group including most other continental European countries and Japan. Using a less
restrictive distance criterion we further isolated a group of “ultra-liberal” countries (the US, the UK, New Zealand and Ireland) and a group of “ultra-regulated” countries (France, Italy and Greece).
These results provide a rigorous confirmation of our a priori expectations.
In brief, our conclusion is that all three studies point to the same economic reality, even though they draw upon quite different data and handle the data using very different statistical techniques, in detail. The next step for research is to determine more exactly how these differences
in regulation influence economic performance.
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Regs 1.jpgregs 2.jpg
reg 3.jpgregs 4.jpg
 
Seems that Ireland ranks quite highly. No wonder they're such a blazing success story.
 
Conservative said:
There is a lot of misinformation flowing and the further we get from the Bush administration the more distortion there is. Here is a good recap so we can stop this foolishness.

http://www.prmia.org/pdf/Case_Studies/Fannie_Mae_and_Freddie_Mac_090911_v2.pdf
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If you knew anything, you'd know CRA loans were not the problem as they constituted a small minority of the loans that brought the credit markets to their knees.


The Comptroller of the Currency. John C. Dugan, agrees: "CRA [the Community Reinvestment Act] is not the culprit behind the subprime mortgage lending abuses, or the broader credit quality issues in the marketplace. Indeed, the lenders most prominently associated with subprime mortgage lending abuses and high rates of foreclosure are lenders not subject to CRA. A recent study of 2006 Home Mortgage Disclosure Act data showed that banks subject to CRA and their affiliates originated or purchased only six percent of the reported high cost loans made to lower-income borrowers within their CRA assessment areas."**

CRA is not to Blame for the Mortgage Meltdown​


And I can't imagine how you missed these gems ...

2002, President George W. Bush signed the Single‐Family Affordable Housing Tax Credit Act. The
"Renewing the Dream" program would give nearly $2.4 billion in tax credits over the next five years
to investors and builders who developed affordable single‐family housing in poor and distressed
areas.

2003, Later that year, President George W. Bush signed the American Dream Downpayment Act, a new
program that provided grants to help home buyers with downpayment and closing costs. The act
authorised $200 million dollars per year for 2004‐2007.

2004, the 2000 rules were dropped and high‐risk loans were again counted toward affordable
housing goals.


"Thanks to our policies, home ownership in America is at an all-time high." ~ George Bush, 9.2.2004, RNC acceptance speech​
 
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AdamT said:
Seems that Ireland ranks quite highly. No wonder they're such a blazing success story.
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currentaccountgdp.jpg
Picture%2B3.png


Ireland has a chance to improve ... wages have decreased recently. Those countries with a current account deficit did not fare well during the housing bubble. Irelands government spending did not pick up until 2008.

They have a very low corporate tax ... however the study measured government regulations in different fields. Negatives for their economy ... like trade deficits are not included. Of the PIIGS they are the most likely to recover.

www.dailykos.com/story/2010/06/23/878473/-Completing-Krugman?iact=hc&vpx=1351&vpy=291&dur=2945&hovh=242&hovw=208&tx=128&ty=124&ei=-pdlTumVBIWSgQf90ei-Cg&page=2&tbnh=181&tbnw=157&start=18&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:12,s:18

1.bp.blogspot.com/_G2bfYrkEHw0/TUZEHJSw5WI/AAAAAAAAAbE/Dx2dXnxxMbI/s1600/Picture%2B3.png
 
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Sheik Yerbuti said:
What exactly is your complaint? That article is rather vague. Is your complaint that the justice department is suing some lenders who are practicing "price discrimination?" Or is it that you didn't read past the headline and really don't know what the article is about?
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Plus it's a opinion piece from the notoriously right wing editorial page.
 
pbrauer said:
Plus it's a opinion piece from the notoriously right wing editorial page.
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Right, we certainly don't expect the Congress to make the same mistakes over and over again, do we?

By the way loved seeing "your" President making his campaign speech in Detroit yesterday for as predicted liberals love sharing their misery equally with others. Michigan with its 10.9% unemployment rate, Detroit having the highest unemployment of any major city in the country, and African American 16.7% unemployment. Yes, Obama's record has really helped the African American community.
 
Michael H said:
Smaaaat response, from someone not following the news. Something beyond rhetoric and attacks is effective debating. Do play again.

Enjoy Senator Sanders conspiracy page. :)

The Fed Audit - Newsroom: U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders (Vermont)
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Would it be too much to ask for you to provide a bit more... eh... detail in regards to these $16 trillion in loans? For example, where did the money go (what parties are liable), who holds the debt (which is an asset), and has there been any defaults?

I guess if Bank of America would borrow $100 billion per day and repay it the following day and the process is repeated 160 times, i can see how "$16 trillion in loans" could emerge in the time span of 160 days or so. However, the Fed does not have $16 trillion in assets from these loans on their books.

Talk about misrepresenting the situation.... If you really knew what you were talking about, the term "notional amount" would have been used quite a bit!
 
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j-mac said:
I think that just as soon as Obama and his sycophantic followers start dealing with the reality that the past 2 1/2 years have been a series of failed policies of the Obama administration, then and only then could you have a reasonable conversation as to the problems. But as long as you have the utterly laughable that failure seen today are the result of a past administration all the way out to include the entire first term as though Obama did nothing to massively balloon debt, and drive business into a hunker down situation through bypassing congressional authority in regulation, then you are not being honest at all.

j-mac
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Yes, I know. Bush did not contribute to anything in this country. He simply didn't exist. His actions had no effect on anything at all. I understand.

:coffeepap

Now, as no one has argued Obama has done nothing that wasn't excellent and great, and many have admitted he has not been perfect, don't you think you're throwing up a bit of a strawman here? yes, Obama added to the debt. No one says otherwsie. And no, business hasn't been driven into a bunker by either president. You guys have simply got to undertand that government is not the answer. Business is holding back because people are not buying as much as they should, and they have been moving overseas for a long while now because labor is much cheaper overseas, and they don't have to worry about health care benefits, as most have some form of a UHC system.

I know the only republican answer to any problem is cut taxes. And it is hard to ever get beyond that automatic response. But Obama is not as bad as you claim, though not perfect, and you might try thinking in terms of the problems we face and not the party of those in power.

Just saying. ;)
 
Boo Radley said:
Yes, I know. Bush did not contribute to anything in this country. He simply didn't exist. His actions had no effect on anything at all. I understand.

:coffeepap

Now, as no one has argued Obama has done nothing that wasn't excellent and great, and many have admitted he has not been perfect, don't you think you're throwing up a bit of a strawman here? yes, Obama added to the debt. No one says otherwsie. And no, business hasn't been driven into a bunker by either president. You guys have simply got to undertand that government is not the answer. Business is holding back because people are not buying as much as they should, and they have been moving overseas for a long while now because labor is much cheaper overseas, and they don't have to worry about health care benefits, as most have some form of a UHC system.

I know the only republican answer to any problem is cut taxes. And it is hard to ever get beyond that automatic response. But Obama is not as bad as you claim, though not perfect, and you might try thinking in terms of the problems we face and not the party of those in power.

Just saying. ;)
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For anyone that ever ran a business or was a leader in other areas, Obama was not a surprise at all. He showed zero leadership and management skills in his resume thus has not been a surprise. He has been a total and complete disaster as President, probably great as a father but not as a leader. Nice guy but unqualified for the position he holds. Being a leader means taking charge and responsibility not placing blame and trying to delegate responsibility.

The Republican answer is reduce the size of govt and allow people too keep more of what they earn. Liberal answer is to keep people dependent and expand the role of govt.
 
Conservative said:
For anyone that ever ran a business or was a leader in other areas, Obama was not a surprise at all. He showed zero leadership and management skills in his resume thus has not been a surprise. He has been a total and complete disaster as President, probably great as a father but not as a leader. Nice guy but unqualified for the position he holds. Being a leader means taking charge and responsibility not placing blame and trying to delegate responsibility.

The Republican answer is reduce the size of govt and allow people too keep more of what they earn. Liberal answer is to keep people dependent and expand the role of govt.
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I don't buy any of that. Republicans have been in charge, had all the power, and haven't reduced government at all. In fact, bush expanded presidential powers, often abusing that power.

And we are discussing casues and responsibility, not Obama and Bush. We can look at it honestly. Both and others before them hold responsibility. That's simply the truth.
 
Boo Radley said:
I don't buy any of that. Republicans have been in charge, had all the power, and haven't reduced government at all. In fact, bush expanded presidential powers, often abusing that power.

And we are discussing casues and responsibility, not Obama and Bush. We can look at it honestly. Both and others before them hold responsibility. That's simply the truth.
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Whether you like it or not Republicans didn't spend 3.6 trillion dollars and although Republicans spent too much they were powerless from 2007-2011. The Obama "Hope and Change" message meant something entirely different to the majority in this country vs what Obama meant and that is obvious today. Obama is and always will be a Community Organizer, not a President.

Now he is getting a lot of help from others who have managed or lead nothing with over the top rhetoric. Think a true leader would condone the following?

Not long ago we heard Democrat vice-president Joe Biden liken Tea Partiers to "terrorists."

Then later, Representative Maxine Waters, D-CA, suggested that "...the Tea Party can go to Hell!"

Following that, Democrat Representative Frederica Wison,D-Fl,at a Town Hall meeting in Miami sponsored by the Congressional Black Caucus (CBC) said, "The real enemy is the Tea Party!"

Last week, Representative Andre Carson, D-IN at another CBC meeting in Miami said, "...that some in Congress would love to see us as second-class citizens and “some of them in Congress right now of this tea party movement would love to see you and me... hanging on a tree.”

Now today, Labor Day 2011 in Detroit, Michigan, Teamster Union boss Jimmy Hofa had this to say when introducng the president of the united States, Barack H. Obama, as posted verbatim from realclearpolitics.com:

Teamsters President Jimmy Hoffa had some profane, combative words for Republicans while warming up the crowd for President Obama in Detroit, Michigan on Monday.

"We got to keep an eye on the battle that we face: The war on workers. And you see it everywhere, it is the Tea Party. And you know, there is only one way to beat and win that war. The one thing about working people is we like a good fight. And you know what? They've got a war, they got a war with us and there's only going to be one winner. It's going to be the workers of Michigan, and America. We're going to win that war," Jimmy Hoffa Jr. said to a heavily union crowd.

"President Obama, this is your army. We are ready to march. Let's take these son of bitches out and give America back to an America where we belong," Hoffa added.
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Conservative said:
Right, we certainly don't expect the Congress to make the same mistakes over and over again, do we?

By the way loved seeing "your" President making his campaign speech in Detroit yesterday for as predicted liberals love sharing their misery equally with others. Michigan with its 10.9% unemployment rate, Detroit having the highest unemployment of any major city in the country, and African American 16.7% unemployment. Yes, Obama's record has really helped the African American community.
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Is there a reason the President of ALL of the people should be focused on the African American community?
 
pbrauer said:
Is there a reason the President of ALL of the people should be focused on the African American community?
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Ask "your" President that question and why he would condone such rhetoric while calling for unity?
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Would it be too much to ask for you to provide a bit more... eh... detail in regards to these $16 trillion in loans? For example, where did the money go (what parties are liable), who holds the debt (which is an asset), and has there been any defaults?

I guess if Bank of America would borrow $100 billion per day and repay it the following day and the process is repeated 160 times, i can see how "$16 trillion in loans" could emerge in the time span of 160 days or so. However, the Fed does not have $16 trillion in assets from these loans on their books.

Talk about misrepresenting the situation.... If you really knew what you were talking about, the term "notional amount" would have been used quite a bit!
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As it was common knowledge and I do know where it went ... or a great portion ... its inconsequential. It was a stimulus to the banks and businesses recovery from losses. Its a search away on google ... and I've already debated the issue. Foreign and national interests were helped. That's what matters. If you like this stuff ... do a search on Q2 600 billion going to foreign banks through their American subsidiaries. So much for credit being available here in the US. Our little contribution to the PIIGS 's problems.
 
AdamT said:
Perhaps you should read a little more history. The poverty rate among America's elderly was scandalous before Medicare and Social Security.
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Medicare was introduced in the 1960's! How was this the result of a "scandalous poverty rate? It was a time of peace and love!

Now it has become a non sustainable program. People are expecting the money to be there, they haven't saved as a result, and the money won't be there. Ya say ya wanna revolution?
 
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Grant said:
AdamT said:
Medicare was introduced in the 1960's! How was this the result of a "scandalous poverty rate? It was a time of peace and love!

Now it has become a non sustainable program. People are expecting the money to be there, they haven't saved as a result, and the money won't be there. Ya say ya wanna revolution?
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You're argument suggests that people would have saved for retirement and medical care before SS and Medicare, but the facts do not bear that out. Poverty among the elederly is now 1/3 what it was before SS and Medicare.
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