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Thread: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

  1. #1431
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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Pretty much. The upfront capital costs to actually produce commercializable aspects of those were massive. Without the government funding of applied sciences for NASA, we would not have the materials that allow civilian space projects to function. And I'm not even considering the expertise that was cultivated under decades of government space programs. Same goes for nuclear energy. And many drugs the NHS found were actually accidental, but shown a slight promise elsewhere. In a commercial drug lab, that kind of slight potential does not warrant a billion dollar investment. Basically your argument ignores that business is out to make money. It will not shoulder massive upfront costs that do not show real tangible commercial gains in a reasonable period of time. Just because people demand it doesn't mean business will provide it. There has to be profit in it.
    And there is no profit in being the first to discover something? Tell me, since apparently these investments take too long to be profitable given the up-front costs, how long does it take for a new auto manufacturing plant to become profitable?

    Actually you can have increased tax revenue without increased tax rates. It's called economic activity.
    Yeah, and taxing more will get you less of it.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    And how many of them did it from scratch relying upon nothing from previous programs?

    Care to tell me what firm in the 50s had a couple billions dollars in 1950s money to spend on something that could not commercialize for possibly decades?
    The lack of previous example in history is not proof of the possibility of something. Which is not to say that there are no examples, but I'm trying to show that your argument rests on faulty logic.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  3. #1433
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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    And there is no profit in being the first to discover something?
    Short of a patent, not really in the context of long commercialization periods.

    Tell me, since apparently these investments take too long to be profitable given the up-front costs, how long does it take for a new auto manufacturing plant to become profitable?
    Are you really comparing a car manufacturing plant to a nascent industry that has no precedent of sales, customers or profit? Seriously?

    Yeah, and taxing more will get you less of it.
    By that measure we should cut taxes to 1%. You do know that Laffer himself stated that it's not a public policy tool no?

    The lack of previous example in history is not proof of the possibility of something. Which is not to say that there are no examples, but I'm trying to show that your argument rests on faulty logic.
    On the contrary, I'm pointing out massive upfront capital costs create massive disincentives for firms to invest when the potential product, if any, may take decades to commercialize. You are deliberately ignoring this as it blows a universe size hole in your argument and beliefs.
    Last edited by obvious Child; 09-10-11 at 06:12 PM.
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  4. #1434
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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    And there is no profit in being the first to discover something?
    Ever hear of Charles Goodyear?

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    So what makes you right?
    History makes me right

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Your problem is you don't understand much of the data you post and the data you do understand, you misrepresent. Like the discouraged workers OC mentioned; you thought the numbers you were posting were totals when they were actually cumulative. Like you not understanding the difference between nominal figures from real figures. And then there's your blatant dishonesty where you cherry-pick data that you find most favorable de la minute. Case in point, point out how there was a net gain of 23 million jobs created during Clinton's 8 years, and you insist that doesn't count because it comes from BLS's payroll data, that you have to use household survey data; but then here you are criticizing Obama for zero net jobs gained for August, even though that number comes from BLS's payroll data.

    Don't think for a moment that your dishonesty goes unnoticed by the denizens here.
    You wouldn't know what honesty is as I have misrepresented anything, whether or not the number is cumulative or not isn't the question, it still has been over 1 million as an average during the Obama term and the fact remains discouraged workers are dropped from the unemployment roles making the unemployment numbers look better than they are. You simply want to divert from the FACT that Obama spent over a trillion dollars and still has a net job loss, declining labor force, 25 plus million unemployed and under employed workers and there is nothing you can say to change that.

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Sounds like a bank, to me.
    So history is another subject you know little about. Is that the way SS was intended? You aren't forced to put your money into a bank but you are forced to "contribute" to SS. Keep buying the leftwing rhetoric and by the way, thanks for "contributing" to my SS check. Glad you are helping me get my "investment" back.

  8. #1438
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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You really have been brainwashed and I am sorry to hear that. You simply cannot believe that the govt. has lied to you but it has. Your money contributed has long been spent and now someone else is paying you. That wasn't the intent of SS and that is what makes it a ponzi scheme.
    Why do have to be condescending when someone disagrees with you? I understand that you don't like Social Security and don't like being forced to contribute, I get that. But being forced to contribute doesn't make it a Ponzi scheme. For someone who says they ran a million dollars, I am surprised how ignorant you are on the subject. Read Boo's post above.

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Why do have to be condescending when someone disagrees with you? I understand that you don't like Social Security and don't like being forced to contribute, I get that. But being forced to contribute doesn't make it a Ponzi scheme. For someone who says they ran a million dollars, I am surprised how ignorant you are on the subject. Read Boo's post above.
    Nothing you have said proves that it doesn't have the characteristics of a ponzi scheme and that really is the point. You contributed your money to SS and your money because more was coming in that going out was put on budget and spent on something other than SS. LBJ and Congress made that legal but your money is gone, period, so you will get your money when some other worker pays it and when the govt. cashes in the IOU's by borrowing or printing money. Where do you think that money is going to come from to buy back those IOU's?

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post

    Someone missed my point about GDP minus government spending.
    Umm, even without government spending, our economy had recovered from the Great Depression by 1941...


    1938 -6.5%
    1939 6.8%
    1940 10.1%
    1941 23.2%
    1942 12.3%
    1943 -8.5%
    1944 3.2%
    1945 -2.6%
    1946 30.2%
    1947 30.2%
    1948 15.2%
    1949 -2.8%

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