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Thread: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

  1. #1411
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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Okay, so I guess I'll have chock it up to ignorance on your part. Social Security may look like a duck to YOU, but it isn't. The very fact that Social Security forces contributions makes it so unlike a Ponzi scheme, but you can keep up your delusion or ignorance if like.
    You really have been brainwashed and I am sorry to hear that. You simply cannot believe that the govt. has lied to you but it has. Your money contributed has long been spent and now someone else is paying you. That wasn't the intent of SS and that is what makes it a ponzi scheme.

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You really have been brainwashed and I am sorry to hear that. You simply cannot believe that the govt. has lied to you but it has. Your money contributed has long been spent and now someone else is paying you. That wasn't the intent of SS and that is what makes it a ponzi scheme.
    So what makes you right?

  3. #1413
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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You really have been brainwashed and I am sorry to hear that. You simply cannot believe that the govt. has lied to you but it has. Your money contributed has long been spent and now someone else is paying you. That wasn't the intent of SS and that is what makes it a ponzi scheme.
    A pnzi scheme. Someone is picking up on a tag line.

    Anyway, ponzi scheme:

    A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to separate investors, not from any actual profit earned by the organization, but from their own money or money paid by subsequent investors.
    Ponzi scheme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So, when we contribute to SS, for this to be the same, we must consider it an investment in which we profit not from our own money, but through some stock we invest in that makes money for us.

    Ponzi vs. Social Security

    Social Security is and always has been either a "pay-as-you-go" system or one that was partially advance-funded. Its structure, logic, and mode of operation have nothing in common with Ponzi schemes or chain letters or pyramid schemes.

    The first modern social insurance program began in Germany in 1889 and has been in continuous operation for more than 100 years. The American Social Security system has been in continuous successful operation since 1935. Charles Ponzi's scheme lasted barely 200 days.

    Social Security Online - HISTORY, Ponzi Schemes vs. Social Security

    Now I know it is hard to ignore a good tag line and be honest about things. In our world today lies too often have more traction than the turth. But remember, for this to happen, the liar needs those willing to accpet the lie and not think at all as to whether it is a lie or the truth.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #1414
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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Nuclear energy was discovered on the government's dime. So without the government, they wouldn't have any nuclear energy to invest in.
    If A therefore B does not mean if not A therefore not B.

    For instance, you could say if it is raining the grass is wet. That does not mean that if it is not raining that the grass is not wet. You could have dew, sprinklers, etc.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    If A therefore B does not mean if not A therefore not B.

    For instance, you could say if it is raining the grass is wet. That does not mean that if it is not raining that the grass is not wet. You could have dew, sprinklers, etc.
    I'm not saying that it wouldn't have happened eventually, but the fact is that it did not happen without the government. While you can't say if not A therefore not B, you also can't say if not A therefore B, which is what you're trying to do.

    Would nuclear energy have been discovered without the government? Maybe. Probably. Nobody really knows for sure because it didn't happen that way.


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    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
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    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    I'm not saying that it wouldn't have happened eventually, but the fact is that it did not happen without the government. While you can't say if not A therefore not B, you also can't say if not A therefore B, which is what you're trying to do.

    Would nuclear energy have been discovered without the government? Maybe. Probably. Nobody really knows for sure because it didn't happen that way.
    Then you can't make the argument as you tried to do that nuclear power would not have existed if not for government.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Paul Krugman On the Inadequacy of the Stimulus

    Quote Originally Posted by Krugman
    Hmm. I don’t think I’ve ever put up a simple explanation of why the stimulus was so clearly inadequate to the task. By the way, my point here is not what Obama shoulda-coulda done; I just want to look at the straight economics.

    So here’s the thing: the financial crisis, and in particular the popping of the housing bubble, had two big effects on spending. One was that housing investment plunged from well-above-normal to well-below-normal levels. The other was that consumers suddenly increased their savings. Here’s a picture, with the red line showing residential construction as a percentage of GDP and the blue line showing the personal savings rate
    :


    Quote Originally Posted by Krugman
    Put these together and you have a negative shock on the order of 6 percent of GDP.

    Against this you had a stimulus bill of $800 billion — except $100 billion of that was AMT extension that was going to happen anyway, another $200 billion was other tax cuts of dubious effectiveness, so you were left with $500 billion of spending, spread over more than 2 years — maybe 1.5 percent of GDP or less.
    A quality read for those interested in the political economy.
    Last edited by Kushinator; 09-10-11 at 03:42 PM. Reason: grammar!
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Paul Krugman On the Inadequacy of the Stimulus







    An quality read for those interested in the political economy.
    The constant excuse, that the spending was simply not enough. Tell me, do you have any examples besides WWII where spending actually did solve anything? Because even in WWII, you have this problem:



    Take away government spending and you have negative GDP growth during WWII.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    The constant excuse, that the spending was simply not enough. Tell me, do you have any examples besides WWII where spending actually did solve anything? Because even in WWII, you have this problem:
    There has been no other time (not even post 9/11) since before WWII where the federal government was put into a position to have to spend in order to prevent economic free fall.



    Take away government spending and you have negative GDP growth during WWII.
    Ok.

    You of course would have preferred double digit UE until the economy was able to "dig its way out".
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    There has been no other time (not even post 9/11) since before WWII where the federal government was put into a position to have to spend in order to prevent economic free fall.





    Ok.

    You of course would have preferred double digit UE until the economy was able to "dig its way out".
    The point is that WWII didn't solve anything. The economy only truly began to recover after WWII when regulations were finally relaxed.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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