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Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

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Sounds like BS to me...I say cut it off. If the idea is good enough to survive on its own then it is worth while.

agreed. another parasite we need not.
 
those of the Keynesian model of redistributive economy.


j-mac

:) dont' forget Obamacare, the EPA regulations, the NLRB taking on Boeing....
 
My point is very simple.

You claim the Stimulus did nothing to stimulate economic growth and development either in your state or across the country. You, like so many others, also claim that government should get out of the way and allow the private sector to do what it does within a free market system without interference.

Have you every heard of a company called Texas Engineering Experiement Station (TEES)? It's an engineering research agency out of Texas. Here's what written on their "About Us" webpage:



:Shock: What's this!?! A private R&D engineering company that purposely seeks out state and "federal funding" to help promote education and stimulate job growth? Unheard of!...not in the great state of Texas. They're "self-sustaining" and would never seek federal dollars.

Of course, I'm mocking you, but my point is there ARE private companies out there who do seek federal aid in order to conduct research and development to help move this country forward. Anyone who thinks this doesn't happen or even believes it should stop completely is just not acknowledging what is and has been a "partnership in this country's continuing growth and development over the centuries" - that the federal government does play a role in job growth and creation in this country. It may be through indirect means, i.e., federal grants and loans such as the $1.93M this company has received via Stimulus funds (which has managed to create 173 jobs, BTW, not large numbers for sure, but it iss a R&D firm...), but it has a place and clearly this company routinely goes out of its way to secure federal funding. I just think it's laughable when people such as yourself decree that the federal government should just step aside, get out of the way of the private secton, when here is a perfect example of how a private company routinely seeking federal funding - stimulus dollars no less...in the millions - to help stimulus the local, state and national economy. But let you tell it, the federal government has no place in the private sector.

Now you can continue to buy the rhetoric and believe what you want but the facts are there for you to see yet you choose not to see. If someone spends a trillion dollars you would expect some economic growth and job creation, wouldn't you? That was short term and didn't do what it was supposed to do which was motivate the private sector to expand, grow, and hire.

The GDP of this country is made up of 4 components of which Govt. spending is one, by far not the largest, but any govt. spending is going to help the GDP but not enough to make that big of a difference. You can see the results of the stimulus as follows remembering that the fiscal year of the U.S. is October-September, thus first qtr GDP is Oct-Dec( Fiscal year 2010 is October 2009 to September 2010)

GDP Growth

Fiscal Year 2009, October 2008-September 2009

1st -6.7
2nd -.7
3rd 1.7
4th 3.8

Fiscal year 2010 (October 2009-September 2010

1st 3.9
2nd 3.8
3rd 2.5
4th 2.3

Fiscal Year 2011(October 2010 to September 2011)

1st .4
2nd 1.0

Notice a trend here? The stimulus was a total and complete failure as evidenced by the results TODAY, 2 1/2 years after implementation. Liberals always forget that Obama was in the Congress that created the mess and Obama economic policy was implemented in February 2009, not later in the year like most Presidents had to endure thus his record 2 years after the end of a recession is disastrous. You are going to believe what you want to believe but the facts just make you look foolish.

What is it about liberalism that creates such loyalty?
 
Sounds like BS to me...I say cut it off. If the idea is good enough to survive on its own then it is worth while.


j-mac

Perhaps whatever this company develops and presents to the marketplace will eventually become self-sustaining. Who knows. Point is, there are privately held companies out there who do seek federal dollars for their research and development in order to bring new ideals and new technologies to the marketplace. Of course, the flip-side of that which is what you're arguing is if a company does have reputation of cranking out good ideas and good products shouldn't they be able to do so on their own nickle?

An interesting paradox for sure....
 
If you look at when the empire really started, in the 1700's, Enlightenment thought was raging across England.

Empire Peaked at the end turn of the 19th/20th Century. and the 1700's saw the Great Awakening. No, they weren't Cromwellians, but to state that that somehow means they were less Christian is silly. I would urge you to read Niall Ferguson's excellent chapter on the interplay between religion and Empire in his book of that title.
 
Perhaps whatever this company develops and presents to the marketplace will eventually become self-sustaining. Who knows.

nobody, and certainly not the bureaucrat who decided to take my money and force me to invest through my government in it. if this company wants investors, let them get them themselves rather than getting government to take care of their business for them.
 
of course no one hired...and they wont hire until after election, its all part of the plan to get a far right corporate/rich friendly republican elected...
Right after the election no matter if a GOP or Obama wins ...they will start hiring

Best way to win an election...create a crisis, demoralize the people
 
of course no one hired...and they wont hire until after election, its all part of the plan to get a far right corporate/rich friendly republican elected...
Right after the election no matter if a GOP or Obama wins ...they will start hiring

Best way to win an election...create a crisis, demoralize the people

Good Lord, Man, Obama had total control of the Congress for two years yet you ignore the results.
 
Now you can continue to buy the rhetoric and believe what you want but the facts are there for you to see yet you choose not to see. If someone spends a trillion dollars you would expect some economic growth and job creation, wouldn't you? That was short term and didn't do what it was supposed to do which was motivate the private sector to expand, grow, and hire.

But you're the one who started out arguing that billions of dollars in stimulus funds have been "allocated" (I stop short of saying "spent" because not even Recovery.gov indicates that all federal contracts, grants and loans have been spent yet) then echo the President's humbling remarks that "maybe shovel ready wasn't as shovel ready as we thought" (or words to that affect) and yet you discount exactly who received that money and how it was utilized. Even the President and his economic team failed to acknowledge that maybe alot more of those stimulus dollars went to agencies like TEES whose primary mission is R&D which don't produce immediate results. The same can be said of urban R&D project that take time to develop. I say take the time to get all the facts before jumping to conclusions as to the success or failure of an initiative.

This country lost millions of construction and manufacturing jobs over a long period of time, and we have been relying heavily on the financial services sector to sustain us for well over 30 years. It's going to take time to regain those manufacturing jobs. R&D as well as expediting the pattent process can help shift things back to manufacturing and make this a nation of domestic producers again. So, in my view as long as a R&D company in TX, NY, CA or wherever are able to partner with local, state and federal government to put their creativity into viable goods and services (mostly goods), then I can get behind that. It can only help bring back balance in domestic imports/exports. And I find that a good thing...a step in the right direction. But it's going to take time.
 
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But you're the one who started out arguing that billions of dollars in stimulus funds have been "allocated" (I stop short of saying "spent" because not even Recovery.gov indicates that all federal contracts, grants and loans have been spent yet) then echo the President's humbling remarks that "maybe shovel ready wasn't as shovel ready as we thought" (or words to that affect) and yet you discount exact who received that money and how it was utilized. Even the President and his economic team failed to acknowledge that maybe alot more of those stimulus dollars went to agencies like TEES whose primary mission is R&D which don't produce immediate results. The same can be said of urban R&D project that take time to develop. I say take the time to get all the facts before jumping to conclusions as to the success or failure of an initiative.

This country lost millions of construction and manufacturing jobs over a long period of time, and we have been relying heavily on the financial services sector to sustain us for well over 30 years. It's going to take time to regain those manufacturing jobs. R&D as well as expediting the pattent process can help shift things back to manufacturing and make this a nation of domestic producers again. So, in my view as long as a R&D company in TX, NY, CA or wherever are able to partner with local, state and federal government to put their creativity into viable goods and services (mostly goods), then I can get behind that. It can only help bring back balance in domestic imports/exports. And I find that a good thing...a step in the right direction. But it's going to take time.

Stimulus by definition is defined as a short term program and designed to stimulate economic activity and it is much easier spending money immediately and getting results than other programs such as tax cuts which take longer to truly benefit the consumers. Why aren't you asking why a stimulus program signed in February 2009 hasn't all been spent? That stimulus program was a total disaster as evidenced by the results. You don't have targeted tax cuts that try to stimulate a personal activity like cash for clunkers or targeted tax cuts to first time home buyers. Those kind of programs have any benefits offset by debt..

Please learn the 4 components of GDP and what percentage each contributes to the GDP before making statements like relying on the financial services sector to sustain us for well over 30 years. Everything you seem to believe is govt. being the answer and that just isn't the case. I posted the GDP growth which you have ignored to this point and the Obama results. the country isn't creating jobs now because of consumer confidence being so low and fear by the business community of this Administration and that is reality
 
Because, as President, everything is short term.

Then how did we ever build the Federal highway system or the Hoover dam. Only a President who cares more about himself than the nation would think only short term.
 
Why would anyone here be surprised, Dear Leaders's policies have created more jobs oversea's than here, just ask his job Czar Jeffery Imelt who's own company GE is closing a plant in Milwaukee that has been there 100 years to move to China, and this guys our jobs czar? Are kiddin me...... Pathetic!
 
I obviously can't tell much just from the summery in the article, but I can't say I agree. For example, Godlessness is listed as a factor: Britain was more Godless during the enlightenment, at the apex of its empire, than any other time. People always make these narratives as a way to support whatever current political position they favor. I can give you much better books if you're interested in patterns in history.

The"Godless" thing is so unimportant in the big picture that its not worth mentioning. The debt and people's dependency on government programs is. The kind of controversies we see in the American media, such as a candidate talking of Elvis Presley, and then that making the news, is demonstrative of how a once great nation has trivialized itself. That was the entire point.
 
Why would anyone here be surprised, Dear Leaders's policies have created more jobs oversea's than here, just ask his job Czar Jeffery Imelt who's own company GE is closing a plant in Milwaukee that has been there 100 years to move to China, and this guys our jobs czar? Are kiddin me...... Pathetic!

In the liberal world rhetoric always trumps substance. Obama with the help of a teleprompter telling him what to say and supporters buying the rhetoric but never looking at the results. Look at today's liberals who are running as fast as they can from the Obama results and are doing everything possible to divert from those results? Isn't it amazing how the last 8 months with the GOP on control of ONE part of Govt. are now responsible for the terrible results the first two years of the Obama Administration when Obama and Democrats controlled the entire govt. in overwhelming numbers and accomplished very little. Again as most liberals want to ignore, fiscal year of the U.S. Runs from October to September. GOP control of the House began in the second qtr of fiscal year 2011.
 
The"Godless" thing is so unimportant in the big picture that its not worth mentioning. The debt and people's dependency on government programs is. The kind of controversies we see in the American media, such as a candidate talking of Elvis Presley, and then that making the news, is demonstrative of how a once great nation has trivialized itself. That was the entire point.

Or a President that quotes Ronald Reagan as an example yet never does anything that Reagan actually did thus having economic results the exact opposite of Reagan who had 17 million jobs created during his Administration thus a huge net job gain not a net job loss of Obama.
 
Then how did we ever build the Federal highway system or the Hoover dam. Only a President who cares more about himself than the nation would think only short term.

You're right. At one time Presidents and the American people did look ahead but thats when America was a different country, when it was a 'can do' nation rather than being mired with so many dependent on the state, and with with various NGO's and protests about any sort of advancement and independence.

One of the best examples of this is the 9/11 crater in NYC sitting vacant for 10 years while the mayor worries about new Yorkers salt intake. Industry has their hands tied, small businesses are being flummoxed and a level of mistrust and crude portrayals of political opponents has taken over the country. When people use the word "hate" when describing a peaceful group of people whose opinion they don't share then that expresses not only the mood of the country but their under-education and inarticulate ways of expressing themselves as well.

The United States has become largely ungovernable with too many self interests and strongly held views and where temper tantrums are now a substitute for discussion in order to solve differences. The education system, tied up by unions, is also third rate where 'self esteem' is taught rather than math or reading skills.

It's a country hopelessly mired in debt yet its citizens are debating the trivial while electing people for reasons quite apart from their abilities to govern properly. America, despite its stock piles of weaponry, is a country which no longer be taken very seriously. There will be sputters and false starts but then it will become just another has-been power, much like the Great Britain.
 
not really. the market hit rock bottom and recovered.... somewhat. those "huge gains" you are referring to only exist because you are taking that particular low point as your starting metric; you are fudging your numbers. compare them to where they should be historically and you will note that in fact our "market gains" are nothing to brag about - especially given our post-downgrade slump.
That's BS. First of all, my numbers are not fudged. Those are the numbers under Bush from his inauguration day until Obama's and then the numbers since Obama's inauguration. Secondly, saying the market was merely bouncing back from "bottoming out" is also BS. You have no idea how low the market could have gone. The market crashed because of the recession that brgan under Bush and turned around in response to Obama's policies. You admitted yourself that the president's policies affect the market.
 
I don't see it as the private sector or the gov't's fault, but there ARE things that both can do help. The problem is a skills mismatch, the solution is a better education system that should involve cooperation between the private sector and the government, like technical schools.
Too many merely want to have someone to blame for political purposes. Sure, things cna be done to hurt and help, though I doubt either side was be honest about what those things are. And yes, we need to rethink a lot, and seek something different from the same old same old, both in government and the private sector. That will come slow and hard, sadly.
 
Now you can continue to buy the rhetoric and believe what you want but the facts are there for you to see yet you choose not to see. If someone spends a trillion dollars you would expect some economic growth and job creation, wouldn't you?
And we had some. 3.5 million jobs saved/created. You said so yourself. Regrettably, not enough to overcome the 8 million jobs lost during Bush's Great Recession.
 
And we had some. 3.5 million jobs saved/created. You said so yourself. Regrettably, not enough to overcome the 8 million jobs lost during Bush's Great Recession.

I guess the biggest problem is they forgot to provide the shovel.
 
nobody, and certainly not the bureaucrat who decided to take my money and force me to invest through my government in it. if this company wants investors, let them get them themselves rather than getting government to take care of their business for them.
Thinking like might have prevented us from stretching our reach to the moon.
 
of course no one hired...and they wont hire until after election, its all part of the plan to get a far right corporate/rich friendly republican elected...
Right after the election no matter if a GOP or Obama wins ...they will start hiring

Best way to win an election...create a crisis, demoralize the people
I am not sure they will start hiring in a significant way after the election, output is up, profits are up, so why should they hire? For the last 30 years since Reagan, we've exported manufacturing of goods and services and the Democrats haven't been very good on this score either. For the most part they owe their souls to the corporate masters who really run this nation now. The Republicans have completely sold out and the Democrats are half way there.

We used to be the biggest creditor nation, now we are one of the biggest debtor nation.

Bring our jobs home to America!!!!
Bring our jobs home to America!!!!
 
Cannot wait until you get out into the real world and test all those theories you are learning in school. Let me remind you, Obama has a net job loss declining labor force, fewer jobs today than when he took office and yet he still blames someone else. I welcome any liberal to post side by side records of Bush vs. Obama using actual numbers not percentage change as percentage change is dependent on the base number. Let me start, Bush had a net job gain, growing labor force, more working Americans, a lower misery index, lower deficits, 4.5 trillion GDP growth, and left the country with a triple A credit rating. Your turn

What the hell are you even yammering on about? Grant and I were having a serious conversation about historical trends, and you try to hijack it with your copy-paste job that has NOTHING to do with what we were talking about. What the hell! What is wrong with you? You can't even let two people have a serious respectful conversation that doesn't directly touch on your OMG OBAMA IS TEH SUX ranting without trying to troll it. What Grant and I were talking has NOTHING to do with Obama or even really the current economic situation. Nothing at all. You, sir, have no respect for other people, no respect for other people's discussions, and no respect for common decency. Please go back to whatever slime infested sewer you crawled out of, and leave the adults alone. You are acting like a disrespectful child whining and throwing a temper tantrum because no one is paying attention to you.

Also, to address your personal attack about when I get into the "real world", has it ever occurred to you that I might already be there? I moved out a month after my 18th birthday and have been completely independent ever since. Right now I am working, I am thinking about picking up a second job, and I am putting myself through school as a full time student. You, buddy, have no right to make any personal judgements about me.
 
those of the Keynesian model of redistributive economy.


j-mac

See, it's comments like this that make people assume that conservatives are racist. Not saying you are, but that's how someone could read this comment, especially since the President has never done more than visit Kenya.
 
I am not sure they will start hiring in a significant way after the election, output is up, profits are up, so why should they hire? For the last 30 years since Reagan, we've exported manufacturing of goods and services and the Democrats haven't been very good on this score either. For the most part they owe their souls to the corporate masters who really run this nation now. The Republicans have completely sold out and the Democrats are half way there.

We used to be the biggest creditor nation, now we are one of the biggest debtor nation.

Bring our jobs home to America!!!!
Bring our jobs home to America!!!!

What about those promises Obama made to address the problems of companies sending jobs over overseas?
 
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