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Thread: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael H View Post
    It is true that I'm not an expert in Economics. However common sense goes a long way. As I said I don't consider any of the loans "long term" but they were long enough to get these business back on their feet, through the efforts of the FED. The FED helped most of them succeed by accepting their junk.

    Now none of these loans were long term and does 16 trillion translate to 3 trillion when considered like an auto loan? Probably, I'm not sure the way they rolled the PDCF loans over daily. What type of term are you trying to translate them into? So approach the term as you will, unless the investigators are lying (the FED agreed with the conclusions) there was 16 trillion in various terms, providing different benefits.

    You state that you "It is true that I'm not an expert in Economics. "Well...who you're debating is.I remember when i first arriveed at DP i was in over my head arguing economic with someone,who shall ramain unnamed since banned.Turns out he worked at the Fed.For what its worth goldenboy isn't a winger either.Just my 2c worth.
    Last edited by Donc; 09-08-11 at 01:05 AM.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    I take issue with the way the came up with $16 trillion, because in reality, it should have been closer to $40 trillion if we applied the same counting techniques across all lending facilities. Why did the GAO chose to go this route? Beats me, but at least they had the intellectual honesty to to put the loans into a proper context.

    All in all, the Fed lent out about $1.39 trillion, and it was in no way "secret".

    The real question is, do you understand why?
    Number one: Is it the job of the FED to bailout these gamblers (criminals)? Congress and the President all ready had a bailout.

    Number 2 secrecy:
    Was it above board that the public knew it was going on? Did Congress know? Why didn't the FED want revelations from investigations that would cause the public to lose faith in them? Why was the decision made for a one time investigation? Why did the FED agree that they need to improve their practices? Why wouldn't the FED want citizens to know the quality of the junk backing these loans?
    If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. Patton
    New opinions are always suspected, and usually opposed, without any other reason but because they are not already common. John Locke

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    The job of the Fed is to keep the financial system from collapsing, which they did.

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    You state that you "It is true that I'm not an expert in Economics. "Well...who you're debating is.I remember when i first arriveed at DP i was in over my head arguing economic with someone,who shall ramain unnamed since banned.Turns out he worked at the Fed.For what its worth goldenboy isn't a winger either.Just my 2c worth.
    An expert in economics should be able to address concerns when they tell you a GAO report is a lie. I can research and find truth and truth is what counts. I won't back down when I find a GAO report that states reality. If GB wanted to say hey ... term makes the effective rate of the loans around a trillion for one year ... fine ... that's not the approach that was used. I was told it wasn't a bailout after being told it was a conspiracy.

    So if I borrow a million for a million years ... using his rational I borrowed one dollar. I could accept an effective rate of around a trillion dollar bailout for a term of one year. It won't change the GAO report of 16 trillion.

    We don't have to be genius's to have an opinion about impropriety by the FED.
    If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. Patton
    New opinions are always suspected, and usually opposed, without any other reason but because they are not already common. John Locke

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael H View Post
    Number one: Is it the job of the FED to bailout these gamblers (criminals)? Congress and the President all ready had a bailout.

    Number 2 secrecy:
    Was it above board that the public knew it was going on? Did Congress know? Why didn't the FED want revelations from investigations that would cause the public to lose faith in them? Why was the decision made for a one time investigation? Why did the FED agree that they need to improve their practices? Why wouldn't the FED want citizens to know the quality of the junk backing these loans?
    I am not saying the Fed, or any central bank for that matter, is completely perfect. However, of all the central banks across the globe, the Fed (IMHO) is the most independent, innovative, and possesses some of the most knowledgeable economists, financiers, and actuaries in the entire world. The European Central Bank (ECB) was not designed to with stand various credit defaults of its member states (otherwise Eurobonds would have been implemented from the start), and a potential collapse of the European Monetary Union is more likely than it has ever been.

    Before a properly function Fed, recessions and depressions were far more common, and had longer durations.

    Source:
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael H View Post
    If GB wanted to say hey ... term makes the effective rate of the loans around a trillion for one year ... fine ... that's not the approach that was used. I was told it wasn't a bailout after being told it was a conspiracy.
    The way in which you applied the comment belongs in the conspiracy theory section. It technically was not $16 trillion, and it surely was not secret. I have little understanding as to why you believe the Feds dealings should be made public on a per action basis.

    So if I borrow a million for a million years ... using his rational I borrowed one dollar. I could accept an effective rate of around a trillion dollar bailout for a term of one year. It won't change the GAO report of 16 trillion.
    From table 9 of the GAO report:

    Table 9: Institutions with Largest Total Term-Adjusted Borrowing across Broad-Based Emergency Programs, December 1,
    2007 through July 21, 2010
    Why do you continue to ignore table 9? The aggregate loan amount adjusted on a per term basis was $1.39 trillion.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    I am not saying the Fed, or any central bank for that matter, is completely perfect. However, of all the central banks across the globe, the Fed (IMHO) is the most independent, innovative, and possesses some of the most knowledgeable economists, financiers, and actuaries in the entire world. The European Central Bank (ECB) was not designed to with stand various credit defaults of its member states (otherwise Eurobonds would have been implemented from the start), and a potential collapse of the European Monetary Union is more likely than it has ever been.

    Before a properly function Fed, recessions and depressions were far more common, and had longer durations.

    Source:
    I'm not a supporter of the central banks. Lincoln had his national banks and avoided the Rothschild / NY interests. Lincoln and the Whigs / Pubs desperately wanted a central bank ... I'm blathering ... just way to much negative damn history ... if theres a place I save in my heart for conspiracy ... it's central banks. I'd be happier if it was in the hand of government and I could do without them too. You want a good read check out the history of central banks in America ... what a mess. I'm not against fiat ... but I never forget Mayer's quote, and wonder why a central bank that returns its profits is so important to control.
    If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. Patton
    New opinions are always suspected, and usually opposed, without any other reason but because they are not already common. John Locke

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    I am not saying the Fed, or any central bank for that matter, is completely perfect. However, of all the central banks across the globe, the Fed (IMHO) is the most independent, innovative, and possesses some of the most knowledgeable economists, financiers, and actuaries in the entire world. The European Central Bank (ECB) was not designed to with stand various credit defaults of its member states (otherwise Eurobonds would have been implemented from the start), and a potential collapse of the European Monetary Union is more likely than it has ever been.

    Before a properly function Fed, recessions and depressions were far more common, and had longer durations.

    Source:
    So should the FED have bailed them out? And should they have been forthcoming with Congress and the public?
    If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. Patton
    New opinions are always suspected, and usually opposed, without any other reason but because they are not already common. John Locke

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    The way in which you applied the comment belongs in the conspiracy theory section. It technically was not $16 trillion, and it surely was not secret. I have little understanding as to why you believe the Feds dealings should be made public on a per action basis.



    From table 9 of the GAO report:



    Why do you continue to ignore table 9? The aggregate loan amount adjusted on a per term basis was $1.39 trillion.
    As I've already stated if you want the term for a year ... I'll accept the "effective" bailout amount for a year. Now when I quote 40 trillion instead of 16 trillion in loans will you call it a conspiracy? As I don't see where you get 40 trillion.

    And I'd like a response as to why it's not secret.
    If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. Patton
    New opinions are always suspected, and usually opposed, without any other reason but because they are not already common. John Locke

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael H View Post
    So should the FED have bailed them out? And should they have been forthcoming with Congress and the public?
    It is the Feds to provide credit when the markets are unable to provide it for themselves. Strong corporations with quality balance sheets couldn't get the credit required to run their day to day operations.

    For example, GE was terrified at the notion they would have to liquidate assets as a means of funding various operations as the commercial paper market essentially locked up. Therefore, it is the Fed's job to step in as lender of last resort when credit markets fail to function properly.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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