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Thread: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

  1. #1031
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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Don't attempt to change the nature of the debate because you were wrong.

    The $16 trillion figure was intellectually dishonest. Time to man up!
    Why should I man up to a loan not being a loan? Also a bailout that you stated did "not" exist ... but you have found a new name for to support your debate ... the liquidity challenged. I wonder why one takes loans ... lmao ... is it because they are liquidity challenged? So what do you call the trillion plus you accounted for? Time to step up and stop being "intellectually dishonest".
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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post

    No one is condoning the amount "Bush" Spent but Bush never ran trillion dollar deficits
    Lie #1.

    2008 and 2009 weren't trillion dollar deficits?

    Bush's budget deficits:


    2002: 420,772,553,397.10
    2003: 554,995,097,146.46
    2004: 595,821,633,586.70
    2005: 553,656,965,393.18
    2006: 574,264,237,491.73
    2007: 500,679,473,047.25
    2008: 1,017,071,524,649.92
    2009: 1,885,104,106,599.30



    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post

    and Bush had 9/11 which GAO puts the cost at over a trillion dollars in direct and indirect costs.
    Lie #2.

    GAO estimated the total cost at $639 billion



    GAO: The New York State Senate Finance Committee estimated losses of $639 billion to the United States through 2003 and $22 billion to New York State (in current dollars).

    http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d02700r.pdf



    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post

    I wasn't happy with Bush but faced with the alternative of Gore or Kerry, I chose wisely.
    Lies #3 and #4.

    You voted for Bush twice for governor, twice for president, and would vote for him again if he could run. And to claim you voted wisely is ridiculous coming from someone who votes strictly party line. Bonzo the Chimp could run and you would vote for him if he ran as Bonzo-R.

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    A kiss is just a kiss and a loan is just a loan ... as time goes by. Hmmmmmmmmmmm a loan is not a loan cuzzz its a PDCF. hmmmmmmmmm

    Fed Audit-- Liveblog on Data Dig | OurFuture.org

    Just starting to parse through the Fed audit data. Looks like the Primary Dealer Credit Facility is predominantly a bailout for Citigroup and Bank of America. More to come . . .

    Looks like in the early days the Primary Dealer Credit Facility was almost exclusively used by Bear Stearns, Countrywide, Barclays and Cantor Fitzgerald. At this point, Bear and Countrywide were JPMorgan Chase and Bank of America, respectively. From April 16, 2008 through July 30, 2008, these four firms were the only ones to access the PDCF, and they did it every day the facility was open.

    The Fed accepted CCC-or-lower collateral under the Primary Dealer Credit Facility from September 15, 2008 until May 12, 2009. A total of $490.9576 billion in such collateral was accepted. That's billion, with a "b." And you thought TARP was a bailout.

    The Fed accepted a total of $1.31 trillion in junk-rated collateral between Sept. 15, 2008 and May 12, 2009 through the Primary Dealer Credit Facility. TARP was nothing compared to this.

    Anyone suggesting that the Fed's "emergency lending" facilities are just part of macro or monetary policy is kidding themselves. The Fed refused to accept junk-rated collateral until Sept. 15, 2008. When it became clear that Lehman was going off the rails, they started accepting junk-rated collateral-- even from Lehman Brothers itself!

    That makes it very clear that the Fed was bailing out these firms in the midst of a crisis. They made a conscious decision to lower their lending standards in order to save big Wall Street firms with no strings attached.

    From March 4, 2009 through May 12, 2009, Citigroup and Bank of America were the sole companies to borrow through the Fed's Primary Dealer Credit Facility, and they used it every single day. A total of 16 firms were eligible for the facility.

    When crisis goes nova in Sept. 2008, two Merrill Lynch facilities start borrowing everything they can from the Fed. They're called "Merrill Lynch Government Securities Inc." and "Merrill Lynch Government Securities Inc. -- London"

    So far as I can tell, the distinction between London and the U.S. is just an excuse for Merrill to take double advantage of the Fed's bailout facilities. Both borrow every single day once the crisis sets in, and both pledge loads of junk bonds as collateral.

    Goldman Sachs also used foreign subsidiaries to double-down on Fed bailout facilities. Just like Merrill, they hae a U.S. unit taking out loans, and a London unit.

    Morgan Stanley also opened a London subsidiary to double-down on Fed bailout facilities, although it appears they caught onto the scam later than Goldman and Merrill.

    Moderately funny. Citigroup, home of Clinton Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, didn't figure out the foreign subsidiary scam until Nov. 24, 2008, a month after its competitors.

    BofA and its predecessors Countrywide and Merrill Lynch accessed the Fed's Primary Dealer Credit Facility 416 times, for a total of $2.783 trillion. A full $476 billion in junk bonds were pledged as collateral for the loans, or roughly 17 percent. The PDCF is an overnight facility, so a lot of these loans are simply being rolled over day-to-day. Nevertheless, it's a staggering amount of money, with an enormous degree of totally worthless collateral being pledged to justify it.
    Last edited by Michael H; 09-07-11 at 10:30 PM.
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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post

    Take your opinion to the American people and see if they agree. Currently they don't. It does appear that you don't realize that discouraged workers enter and leave the market and that affects the labor force number with impacts the unemployment rates. I would have thought someone of your superior intelligence and experience would know that.
    Umm, discouraged workers declined by 142,000. 331,000 jobs gained last month.

    And you remain under the delusion that the unemployment rate remained at 9.1% without gaining jobs even though 150,000 jobs are needed just to keep the rate at 9.1%.

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael H View Post
    Why should I man up to a loan not being a loan? Also a bailout that you stated did "not" exist ... but you have found a new name for to support your debate ... the liquidity challenged. I wonder why one takes loans ... lmao ... is it because they are liquidity challenged? So what do you call the trillion plus you accounted for? Time to step up and stop being "intellectually dishonest".
    "The $16 trillion in secret loans is a bailout." comment was bull****. Even the senator who would stand behind such a ridiculous statement is a complete moron.

    There was not $16 trillion in secret loans, as has been explained to ad nauseum. So quit replying with the intent to build straw men, as i do not respond to fallacious arguments. Instead, i call them out
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    "The $16 trillion in secret loans is a bailout." comment was bull****. Even the senator who would stand behind such a ridiculous statement is a complete moron.

    There was not $16 trillion in secret loans, as has been explained to ad nauseum. So quit replying with the intent to build straw men, as i do not respond to fallacious arguments. Instead, i call them out
    Maybe you can respond to post 1033 and explain how PDCF loans were rolled over everyday? I mean they weren't loans now were they?
    If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. Patton
    New opinions are always suspected, and usually opposed, without any other reason but because they are not already common. John Locke

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    "The $16 trillion in secret loans is a bailout." comment was bull****. Even the senator who would stand behind such a ridiculous statement is a complete moron.

    There was not $16 trillion in secret loans, as has been explained to ad nauseum. So quit replying with the intent to build straw men, as i do not respond to fallacious arguments. Instead, i call them out
    You still haven't admitted there was a bailout by the FED of any amount!!! You fight for honesty whats your response?

    Get off the ropes and stop playing rope a dope!
    Last edited by Michael H; 09-07-11 at 10:37 PM.
    If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. Patton
    New opinions are always suspected, and usually opposed, without any other reason but because they are not already common. John Locke

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Lie #1.

    2008 and 2009 weren't trillion dollar deficits?

    Bush's budget deficits:


    2002: 420,772,553,397.10
    2003: 554,995,097,146.46
    2004: 595,821,633,586.70
    2005: 553,656,965,393.18
    2006: 574,264,237,491.73
    2007: 500,679,473,047.25
    2008: 1,017,071,524,649.92
    2009: 1,885,104,106,599.30




    Lie #2.

    GAO estimated the total cost at $639 billion



    GAO: The New York State Senate Finance Committee estimated losses of $639 billion to the United States through 2003 and $22 billion to New York State (in current dollars).

    http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d02700r.pdf




    Lies #3 and #4.

    You voted for Bush twice for governor, twice for president, and would vote for him again if he could run. And to claim you voted wisely is ridiculous coming from someone who votes strictly party line. Bonzo the Chimp could run and you would vote for him if he ran as Bonzo-R.
    This really is getting old, I am now convinced that you really aren't that smart as you say the same things over and over again all in hopes that if you say it often enough it will be accurate. Bush did not have a trillion dollar deficit in 2009 unless he ran that deficit from Dallas. Do you work for the DNC? The distorted information you post seems like DNC material.

    Regarding 9/11, do you know the difference between direct and indirect costs? Of course not.

    Get over your BDS, it really is a sickness. If Bush ran against Obama I would vote for him again as I will take the Bush results vs. Obama's any day. Still waiting for you to put them side by side using nominal numbers.
    Last edited by Conservative; 09-07-11 at 10:46 PM.

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Umm, discouraged workers declined by 142,000. 331,000 jobs gained last month.

    And you remain under the delusion that the unemployment rate remained at 9.1% without gaining jobs even though 150,000 jobs are needed just to keep the rate at 9.1%.
    Where did those discouraged workers show up in the calculations? Think about it

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    Re: Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

    No bailout here. Honesty and misrepresentation. You knew all this ... I on the other hand did not.

    The Use and Abuse of the Primary Dealer Credit Facility - Seeking Alpha

    The Use and Abuse of the Primary Dealer Credit Facility
    1. A total $8,959bn was loaned to financial institutions (including rollover) with a weighted average interest rate of 1.53 percent. The total collateral against this $8,959bn of loan was $9,665bn, a mere 7.88% overcollateralization in a time of distress and rapidly deteriorating assets. The quality of the collateral posted for PDCF was pitiable. Only 1.4% of the collateral, on average, was traditional collateral posted in the form of U.S. Treasury or agency debt, while corporate securities topped the list with 24% followed by equity at 22% and municipal bond at 14 percent. Collateral as indicated by rating points to the fact that almost 65% of collateral was either junk or equities. Of the total collateral, 42% was virtually pure junk consisting of MBS / BBB / BB / B / CCC and unrated instruments and equities constituted 23% of collateral.

    Of the total collateral, 15% was unrated, 7% MBS, 6% BBB, 4% BB, 4% B and 5% CCC or lower. Only 20% of collateral was AAA while 32% was rated A and above. Basically, the Fed simultaneously became the dumping ground for all of the trash that the nation’s big banks needed to get rid of and the world’s largest vulture fund, it’s just that it paid premium prices for the junk.

    Last edited by Michael H; 09-07-11 at 11:02 PM.
    If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. Patton
    New opinions are always suspected, and usually opposed, without any other reason but because they are not already common. John Locke

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