Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

teamosil · Sep 4, 2011

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

VanceMack said:
FIxing it going forward requires change...on all peoples behalf.

Just got back from San Fran...several meetings with homless coalitions. Guess the one common thread all the homeless groups, unemployed groups, tenants rights groups, etc ALL have in common. Give up? They all deman more from those that are wealthy. They demand change from the government...fed, and local. They demand more resources. You know what is NEVER mentioned? The homeless. There is never even a consideration for changing the environment that creates thesituation and for personal responsibility

Yeah. Everybody has got some excuse why it isn't their problem. Homeless people have all these rationalizations about the system keeping them down, Republicans have all these rationalizations about "personal responsibility"... End result, nobody does anything to fix it.

Grant · Sep 4, 2011

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

teamosil said:
Yeah. Everybody has got some excuse why it isn't their problem. Homeless people have all these rationalizations about the system keeping them down, Republicans have all these rationalizations about "personal responsibility"... End result, nobody does anything to fix it.

It appears you don't have much confidence in 'personal responsibility'. Are you speaking for yourself here?

ric27 · Sep 4, 2011

theplaydrive said:
Do you really not understand that context? This thread is so stupid.

So goes the liberal "thinking" pattern

ThePlayDrive · Sep 4, 2011

RiverDad said:
Sure, let's party. That study doesn't control for familiarity or interaction. Look at this chart - white people in districts with low African American populations were more likely to vote for Obama than white people living in districts with high levels of African American population.

The point is that when you do an implicit bias test you need to control for EXACTLY WHAT that implicit bias is referring to. Whites in Vermont whose principal exposure to blacks is by watching TV will have a different implicit bias than whites who live side by side with blacks in Detroit or Atlanta. Both good and bad biases form. If you want to understand something then you have to ask the proper questions.

In this case, why is it that as the black proportion of a state increases there is less white support for Obama? If you think it's racism, then why are the most racist whites living in the most racially diverse states and the least racist whites are living in the least racially diverse states. Look at Portland, Oregon, a mecca for white liberals. New Geography reports:

Among the media, academia and within planning circles, there’s a generally standing answer to the question of what cities are the best, the most progressive and best role models for small and mid-sized cities. The standard list includes Portland, Seattle, Austin, Minneapolis, and Denver. In particular, Portland is held up as a paradigm, with its urban growth boundary, extensive transit system, excellent cycling culture, and a pro-density policy. These cities are frequently contrasted with those of the Rust Belt and South, which are found wanting, often even by locals, as “cool” urban places.

But look closely at these exemplars and a curious fact emerges. If you take away the dominant Tier One cities like New York, Chicago and Los Angeles you will find that the “progressive” cities aren’t red or blue, but another color entirely: white.

In fact, not one of these “progressive” cities even reaches the national average for African American percentage population in its core county. Perhaps not progressiveness but whiteness is the defining characteristic of the group.

Awesome. My turn.

1. Only 12% of the participants in said study were Republican. Pretty uneven for a successful comparison of both groups. Enough said.

2. It's interesting to me that in the published paper, he didn't actually mention the racial bias of Democrats. Weird that he left that bit out, right?

http://pcl.stanford.edu/common/docs/research/iyengar/2007/katrina-cues.pdf

The point is that you can find many studies about this and they'll all say different things if only because racism can be well hidden and is difficult to measure. For every study you pull out of your ass to say liberals are more racist than conservatives, there's another that says the opposite.

ThePlayDrive · Sep 4, 2011

RiverDad said:
If you're going to play "he started it first" then at least do so honestly and note that my comment was in response to:

I know people in the Tea Party movement who would very much like to see black people hanging from trees. I don't consider them representative of the entire movement, but that element does exist in the Tea Party movement. Get over it. You can't pretend it doesn't exist just because it is inconvenient.

You don't take offense at that statement. Why not?

Why would I take offense to a statement of someone telling his own personal experiences AND stating that his personal experiences are NOT representative of the entire movement. CT pointed out that racists do, in fact, exist in the Tea Party movement. In fact, they exist everywhere! You, on the other hand, decided to post a ridiculous study that framed an entire group as racist. Fail.

cpwill · Sep 4, 2011

RiverDad said:
If you're going to play "he started it first" then at least do so honestly and note that my comment was in response to:

I know people in the Tea Party movement who would very much like to see black people hanging from trees. I don't consider them representative of the entire movement, but that element does exist in the Tea Party movement. Get over it. You can't pretend it doesn't exist just because it is inconvenient.

You don't take offense at that statement. Why not?

you know, it suddenly occurs to me that that is very specific. If he knows such people in the Tea Party movement, I think it's about time someone demanded that he name them.

ThePlayDrive · Sep 4, 2011

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

RiverDad said:
And women who see a man approaching them on the sidewalk late at night think that they are at greater risk because of the person's sexual organs. Women are sexual discriminators. Boo women. Time to send women to leftist reeducation camps.

A woman on a street late at night has 10 seconds to make a safety decision. An employer has much longer than that and much more information to evaluate a candidate. The comparison is ridiculous.

cpwill · Sep 4, 2011

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

theplaydrive said:
Cultures...based on race.

not necessarily. as you point out yourself:

You differentiated cultures by race - Asians, whites, blacks (well Asian is more ethnicity, but you get the picture).

ethnicities, places, generations, and plenty of other groups produce their own subcultures as well; which give off similar results. walk into an employers office sounding and looking like a kid from the New Jersey Shore reality show, and you'll see poor results as well.

I hate semantics games.

eh, this is one of a fine, but important definitional distinction. thinking someone will be an inferior worker because they are black is racism and deplorable. thinking that they will be an inferior worker because they come from a culture that celebrates the notion that working hard is for suckers is not.

You do realize that there are countless examples where this is not the case.

individual examples yes, but what we are talking here is statistics.

Yes, we live in two separate realities.

fine. I'll stick to the reality that comes from the Census Bureau, and you can stick with your reality, which apparently comes from the need to provide ever-more-ludicrous defenses of poor and outdated policy.

well of course you wouldn't ever say that. what you said was, "X race is known for Y culture", therefore employers don't hire that race as much for productivity and I like productivity. Like I said before, conservatives have become creative with their language.

so am I now racist against White People because I say that Asian's culture is actually superior in terms of individual productivity, which is why they see better results?

actually, it is correct. something being popular doesn't make it successful.

well, we'll see from Indiana how it works out. but your claim that only wealthy parents were interested in vouchers remains ridiculous. and yes - incorrect.

cpwill · Sep 4, 2011

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

theplaydrive said:
A woman on a street late at night has 10 seconds to make a safety decision. An employer has much longer than that and much more information to evaluate a candidate.

really? how many applicants are there per job opening and how long does every employer have to take time away from his business to shuffle through them?

in reality, most don't even read through all the resume's; they scan rapidly pick out a handful of ones that look promising and then try to winnow from that. that's why the studies that are cited usually center on "names that sound black" and so forth - because that is all the employer get's to see.

Mason66 · Sep 4, 2011

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

Objective Voice said:
Alright, first thing's first...

Rep. Andre Carson DID NOT call the entire Tea Party movement racist. What he said was:

How posters to this or any of the other threads discussing this matter could have missed this clarifying rebuttal somewhat baffles me. Perhaps it could be that while Republicans/Conservatives are quick to condemn Rep. Carson for his commentary, folks failed to seek out exactly what was said and instead did the very thing some have accussed others of doing here - painting people with a broad brush.

The question asked by justabubba...

...is an important and valid question to ask. Clearly, not everyone involved with the Tea Party movement are racist. However, I don't think anyone can deny that there are racist elements within the Tea Party movement. As haymarket has pointed out, there have been members of the Tea Party movement who have presented racist signs or wore T-shirts with questionable racist comments on them. And if Tea Party members haven't said things that can be clearly defined as racist, some among them have made statements have racist undertones. Take Rep. Joe Walsh, for example. Recently in a MSNBC.com with Martin Bashir, Rep. Walsh was asked about the allegations of racism within the Tea Party movement. When confronted directly on the matter asking specifically if Walsh believed people voted for President Obama just because he was Black, Walsh replied "because it was a historical moment in this nation's history". (You can watch the video exchange here.) Although Rep. Walsh's answer was correct, it gives the impression that that's the only reason some people voted for the nation's 44th President - because he was Black. However, it does bring into question why Rep. Walsh is so upset with Pres. Obama. He says that it's a matter of the President's "failed policies", but when you listen to him in the video he gives far more respect to Congress assembling on behalf of foreign heads of state than he does his nation's president. This tells me there's more going on here than just a person being upset over policy matters. But I invite the readers/viewers to watch the video interview and really listen to what's said and make your own conclusion.

For me, while I will agree that not every member of the Tea Party are racist, I do believe there are racist elements within the movement. However, I would also like to read transcripts or view video commentary of the type of visceral comments made by those Tea Party members Rep. Carson accuses of being racist. Just as the videos of Mrs. Sherly Sherrod and her association with the NAACP suddenly popped up (a video that later disproved the racist allegation levied against her), I would like to see videos of racism levied against the Tea Party if they're out there. So, if you have 'em post them here for all to see.

Please go back and look at what he actually said, and not what he said after the fact to back track on what he said originally.

He talked about Republican legislators that wanted to string up black people. Whoa re they exactly.

RiverDad · Sep 4, 2011

theplaydrive said:
Why would I take offense to a statement of someone telling his own personal experiences AND stating that his personal experiences are NOT representative of the entire movement. CT pointed out that racists do, in fact, exist in the Tea Party movement. In fact, they exist everywhere! You, on the other hand, decided to post a ridiculous study that framed an entire group as racist. Fail.

Oh, you want personal experiences. Ok, then. On my university campus there were people who were orgasmic about the fact that a black man won the election. They thought that the symbolism was fantastic. They felt good about themselves for being racists and voting for someone because of the color of his skin. I know these things to be true because people were telling me that they were so happy that they helped elect a black man to the Office of President. These liberals are racists and there were a lot more of these people on my campus than just the ones I spoke to personally.

There, that's my personal experience.

teamosil · Sep 4, 2011

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

Grant said:
It appears you don't have much confidence in 'personal responsibility'. Are you speaking for yourself here?

"Personal responsibility" is two things. 1) It is people taking responsibility for their own lives. That is a very good thing which I heartily support. 2) It is a line right wingers use when they don't want to help with something. That is a very bad thing which I strongly oppose.

For example, say somebody gets their car stuck in a snowstorm. To me personal responsibility means that the person in the car has a shovel with them and they're out there trying to dig themselves out. To a Republican "personal responsibility" means that when they walk past instead of helping they think "screw that guy, not my problem".

Mason66 · Sep 4, 2011

CriticalThought said:
No it isn't. I live in the south, and I know people in the Tea Party movement who would very much like to see black people hanging from trees. I don't consider them representative of the entire movement, but that element does exist in the Tea Party movement. Get over it. You can't pretend it doesn't exist just because it is inconvenient.

Carson was referring to "those in Congress" and not the Tea Party movement.

Do you know any Republican representatives that want to hang black people?

ThePlayDrive · Sep 4, 2011

RiverDad said:
Oh, you want personal experiences. Ok, then. On my university campus there were people who were orgasmic about the fact that a black man won the election. They thought that the symbolism was fantastic. They felt good about themselves for being racists and voting for someone because of the color of his skin. I know these things to be true because people were telling me that they were so happy that they helped elect a black man to the Office of President. These liberals are racists and there were a lot more of these people on my campus than just the ones I spoke to personally.

There, that's my personal experience.

What's your point? You knew some people who voted for Obama, in part, because he was black. I don't doubt these types of people exist even if you're lying. Was I supposed to be upset by this?

ThePlayDrive · Sep 4, 2011

Mason66 said:
Carson was referring to "those in Congress" and not the Tea Party movement.

Do you know any Republican representatives that want to hang black people?

1. He was referring to Tea Party congress members not just Republicans in Congress. Exact quote: "some of them in Congress right now of this tea party movement would love to see you and me ... hanging on a tree.”

Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' - Jake Sherman - POLITICO.com

2. How can someone prove or disprove such racism? Do you really think all racists, particularly those who want to be elected, openly state there racism? There could be several members of Congress who hold these ideas, Rep or Dem. Asking someone to prove it is just foolish.

ric27 · Sep 4, 2011

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

teamosil said:
"Personal responsibility" is two things. 1) It is people taking responsibility for their own lives. That is a very good thing which I heartily support. 2) It is a line right wingers use when they don't want to help with something. That is a very bad thing which I strongly oppose.

For example, say somebody gets their car stuck in a snowstorm. To me personal responsibility means that the person in the car has a shovel with them and they're out there trying to dig themselves out. To a Republican "personal responsibility" means that when they walk past instead of helping they think "screw that guy, not my problem".

If all you can do is make statements that only you consider witty...they aren't witty, they're stupid. If you want to point at specific actions by Republicans, go for it. I'll condemn those individuals right along with you. Until then, why don't you take some personal responsibility for the liberals you espouse and acknowledge that they didn't just **** up, they are doing it for political and financial gain.

ThePlayDrive · Sep 4, 2011

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

cpwill said:
really? how many applicants are there per job opening and how long does every employer have to take time away from his business to shuffle through them?

in reality, most don't even read through all the resume's; they scan rapidly pick out a handful of ones that look promising and then try to winnow from that. that's why the studies that are cited usually center on "names that sound black" and so forth - because that is all the employer get's to see.

Oh I don't know, Abercrombie and Fitch blatantly fired people and reject applicants specifically because of their race after inviting them in for interviews - which is clearly more than 10 seconds. Other businesses have done the same thing - just search for racial discrimination lawsuits.

teamosil · Sep 4, 2011

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

ric27 said:
If all you can do is make statements that only you consider witty...they aren't witty, they're stupid. If you want to point at specific actions by Republicans, go for it. I'll condemn those individuals right along with you. Until then, why don't you take some personal responsibility for the liberals you espouse and acknowledge that they didn't just **** up, they are doing it for political and financial gain.

What the hell are you talking about?

Mason66 · Sep 4, 2011

theplaydrive said:
1. He was referring to Tea Party congress members not just Republicans in Congress. Exact quote: "some of them in Congress right now of this tea party movement would love to see you and me ... hanging on a tree.”

Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' - Jake Sherman - POLITICO.com

2. How can someone prove or disprove such racism? Do you really think all racists, particularly those who want to be elected, openly state there racism? There could be several members of Congress who hold these ideas, Rep or Dem. Asking someone to prove it is just foolish.

Are there many Democrat Tea Party members in Congress?

RiverDad · Sep 4, 2011

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

theplaydrive said:
Oh I don't know, Abercrombie and Fitch blatantly fired people and reject applicants specifically because of their race after inviting them in for interviews - which is clearly more than 10 seconds. Other businesses have done the same thing - just search for racial discrimination lawsuits.

How about all those dudes who are never interviewed for the job of being surrogate mothers.

If A&F wants employees to be part of the brand image which is directed to a segment of White America, then it's pretty damn hard for a Black Man to appear as a White Man. If a Chinese restaurant wants Chinese women as waitresses then it's very hard for a Black woman to look like she is a Chinese woman.

ThePlayDrive · Sep 4, 2011

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

cpwill said:
not necessarily. as you point out yourself:

ethnicities, places, generations, and plenty of other groups produce their own subcultures as well; which give off similar results. walk into an employers office sounding and looking like a kid from the New Jersey Shore reality show, and you'll see poor results as well.

what you just pointed out is behaviors. the more appropriate analogy would be "an employer sees an italian name, automatically thinks 'jersey shore mtv' and then throws away the resume". that would be unjust discrimination just like seeing a "black name", assuming 'criminal' and throwing away the resume.

eh, this is one of a fine, but important definitional distinction. thinking someone will be an inferior worker because they are black is racism and deplorable. thinking that they will be an inferior worker because they come from a culture that celebrates the notion that working hard is for suckers is not

And you associate certain races with certain cultures.

individual examples yes, but what we are talking here is statistics.

actually, statistics back up my claim. (btw, i'm not talking about Sowell study which I agree with, I'm talking about the idea that it's just about speaking well and dressing well.)

fine. I'll stick to the reality that comes from the Census Bureau, and you can stick with your reality, which apparently comes from the need to provide ever-more-ludicrous defenses of poor and outdated policy.

Really, the Census Bureau said that the lives of blacks will significantly improve if parents just get married. Did they also say how two parents hating each other would affect the kid? Did they also say that it's not just marriage, but the conditions that surround marriage that may impact that bogus conclusion? Did they also point to the fact that kids of single parents in upper class neighborhoods still do really well in life? Yeah, it's about marriage...or not.

so am I now racist against White People because I say that Asian's culture is actually superior in terms of individual productivity, which is why they see better results?

Not really. There's nothing racist about pointing out patterns in cultural differences. There is something racist about assuming that people with certain names or skin color automatically exhibit certain behaviors.

well, we'll see from Indiana how it works out. but your claim that only wealthy parents were interested in vouchers remains ridiculous. and yes - incorrect.

I never said only wealthy parents are interested in vouchers. Now you're just blatantly making things up. This is the point of the conversation where I bow out.

ThePlayDrive · Sep 4, 2011

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

RiverDad said:
How about all those dudes who are never interviewed for the job of being surrogate mothers.

If A&F wants employees to be part of the brand image which is directed to a segment of White America, then it's pretty damn hard for a Black Man to appear as a White Man. If a Chinese restaurant wants Chinese women as waitresses then it's very hard for a Black woman to look like she is a Chinese woman.

You're posts are getting more and more illogical and laughable by the minute. I think it's time to step away from debate politics and return to Stormfront.

ThePlayDrive · Sep 4, 2011

Mason66 said:
Are there many Democrat Tea Party members in Congress?

He was talking about Tea Partiers not Republicans in general as you tried to claim. Nice try though.

RiverDad · Sep 4, 2011

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

theplaydrive said:
Really, the Census Bureau said that the lives of blacks will significantly improve if parents just get married. Did they also say how two parents hating each other would affect the kid?

Let's delve a little deeper into how you see life in Black America. Share with us exactly why you think blacks in marriages hate each other more than other couples from other races hate each other in their marriages.

ThePlayDrive · Sep 4, 2011

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

RiverDad said:
Let's delve a little deeper into how you see life in Black America. Share with us exactly why you think blacks in marriages hate each other more than other couples from other races hate each other in their marriages.

Again, you're logic fails again. This is getting embarrassing RD, I think you need to take a break. The argument is not that black marriages are more unhappy, the argument is that forcing people who don't want to be married to each other to get married is a recipe for disaster.