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Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

So, in the end, you are left with just your beliefs that you believe because you want to believe them. Although in your case it sounds like you started out in the beginning with that same mindset also.

I believe them, because my life experiences have taught me to believe them, not because someone did some sorta study and is telling me to believe them.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

C'mon, Grant.

Where in any others links you provided in post #627 quote either the President or the First Lady as making racist comments or stirring up racial hatred?

Because they, like the CBC, are using divisive racial talk rather than addressing points that effect all Americans. They make claims that Black people must fear Republicans or fear the Tea Party, when in fact it is just their fellow Americans offering a different point of view through the democratic process.

The United States should have come closer together when Barrack Obama was elected President, and I feel that was what everyone hoped and wanted. But by continually discussing race, and keeping racial differences in the spotlight, he and members of his party are destroying whatever hope they might once have had based on the promises made during his campaign.

His approval ratings following the election were very high, far higher than the percentage of those who voted for him. And this was because the American people wanted him to succeed as President, and those who had misgivings over his lack of experience or lack of conviction in his rhetoric, were willing to give him a chance.

He has obviously thrown that chance away. A lot of this has to do with his mismanagement of the economy but I feel his lack of substance also plays a part. Using race as a political strategy is just plain wrong and even his most ardent supporters are now backing off this inflammatory and divisive talk.

Obama says Republicans will use race to stoke fear | Reuters
The YouTube video of the FLOTUS only stated how the African American community would eventually "wake up", cast aside the "mental shackles of believing they are inferior" (my words, not hers) and start believing that a qualified Black man could be elected President of the United States. She wasn't playing racism. She was responding to a question asked her, specifically, if she believed African Americans would show up at the polls and put their collective voting power behind a Black president. If we, African Americans, had stayed home maybe Obama doesn't win and Michelle's word would have been validate - that African Americans continued to wear the "mental shackles". I'm proud of the fact that my people woke up on November 4, 2008 and cast their vote behind someone they should be proud of.

All Americans, or certainly most of them, were proud of Barrack Obama. In fact the world was proud. I think it is great that a Black person was elected President of the United States, but I would have preferred a competent Black person who did not use racial language to separate and divide. In a land where every colour and religion is represented, this Black thing, and the mistrust of others, is being overplayed too much. I want MLK's words concerning character to be in everyones mind, not the colour of their skin, nor empty slogans and the politics of mistrust exemplified by Barrack Obama and his supporters.

The second link attributes nothing to quotes made by neither the President nor the FLOTUS.

yes, I know. I included that because there are many others who also like to bring race into the conversation, and I doubt the first lady would mention it without the approval of BHO himself.

As for the first linked article, was what the President said true back then? Did Sen. McCain or others within the GOP use fear tactics to discredit Obama on the run-up to the 2008 Presidential election? We heard all sorts of commits made about his religious faith and his birthright. Were there racial comments coming out of the McCain camp as well? Be honest...

No, they did not. It was Barrack Obama who was the first among the candidates to mention race.
Think back to Rev. Wright...ahhh!

And why not? Certainly his mentor, his inspiration for public life, should be mentioned.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

Alright, first thing's first...

Rep. Andre Carson DID NOT call the entire Tea Party movement racist. What he said was:



How posters to this or any of the other threads discussing this matter could have missed this clarifying rebuttal somewhat baffles me. Perhaps it could be that while Republicans/Conservatives are quick to condemn Rep. Carson for his commentary, folks failed to seek out exactly what was said and instead did the very thing some have accussed others of doing here - painting people with a broad brush.

The question asked by justabubba...



...is an important and valid question to ask. Clearly, not everyone involved with the Tea Party movement are racist. However, I don't think anyone can deny that there are racist elements within the Tea Party movement. As haymarket has pointed out, there have been members of the Tea Party movement who have presented racist signs or wore T-shirts with questionable racist comments on them. And if Tea Party members haven't said things that can be clearly defined as racist, some among them have made statements have racist undertones. Take Rep. Joe Walsh, for example. Recently in a MSNBC.com with Martin Bashir, Rep. Walsh was asked about the allegations of racism within the Tea Party movement. When confronted directly on the matter asking specifically if Walsh believed people voted for President Obama just because he was Black, Walsh replied "because it was a historical moment in this nation's history". (You can watch the video exchange here.) Although Rep. Walsh's answer was correct, it gives the impression that that's the only reason some people voted for the nation's 44th President - because he was Black. However, it does bring into question why Rep. Walsh is so upset with Pres. Obama. He says that it's a matter of the President's "failed policies", but when you listen to him in the video he gives far more respect to Congress assembling on behalf of foreign heads of state than he does his nation's president. This tells me there's more going on here than just a person being upset over policy matters. But I invite the readers/viewers to watch the video interview and really listen to what's said and make your own conclusion.

For me, while I will agree that not every member of the Tea Party are racist, I do believe there are racist elements within the movement. However, I would also like to read transcripts or view video commentary of the type of visceral comments made by those Tea Party members Rep. Carson accuses of being racist. Just as the videos of Mrs. Sherly Sherrod and her association with the NAACP suddenly popped up (a video that later disproved the racist allegation levied against her), I would like to see videos of racism levied against the Tea Party if they're out there. So, if you have 'em post them here for all to see.

Yeah, he back peddled, because he realized what as asshole he appeared to be.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

I want MLK's words concerning character to be in everyones mind, not the colour of their skin, nor empty slogans and the politics of mistrust exemplified by Barrack Obama and his supporters.

Most definitely....a candidate's race or ethnicity should not be a positive or negative factor in the vote. After all, that's why there has been a civil rights issue for the last half century.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

Demonstrate exactly how Obama played the race card.

He didn't have to; there were thousands of his worshipers doing it for him.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

Thank you for letting me know that you approve of racial discrimination

have I ever said so? no. I recognize the reality of cultural discrimination. Employers could care less about the pigmentation - they care about the productivity versus costs.

Certain aspects of low-income black culture are a problem

indeed they are. Cosby is right on this issue - blacks are currently generally their own worst enemy (same could be said of most consistently lower-income whites)

and two other huge problems are racism (which you find acceptable)

nope.

and unequal opportunity (which you don't even mention).

see: cpwill's posts in the education forum, consistent support of vouchers to allow poor urban minorities to escape failing school systems.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

Of course that is true- all stereotypes have some truth to them. Are you saying that makes it ok to be racist or something? Can you spell out your argument more?

Personally I don't give a rat's ass about who to blame or whatever, I just want to fix it going forward.
FIxing it going forward requires change...on all peoples behalf.

Just got back from San Fran...several meetings with homless coalitions. Guess the one common thread all the homeless groups, unemployed groups, tenants rights groups, etc ALL have in common. Give up? They all deman more from those that are wealthy. They demand change from the government...fed, and local. They demand more resources. You know what is NEVER mentioned? The homeless. There is never even a consideration for changing the environment that creates thesituation and for personal responsibility
 
Similarly, racism is very strong in liberals and mostly non-existent in Republicans. The Washington Post reports about research concerning the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina:


Are Republicans stingy but principled while Democrats are generous but racist?

"I wouldn't put it quite so starkly," said Stanford University professor Shanto Iyengar. He would prefer to call Democrats "less principled" rather than bigoted, based on his analysis of data collected in a recent online experiment that he conducted with The Washington Post and washingtonpost.com.

As reported in this column a few weeks ago, the study found that people were less likely to give extended aid to black Hurricane Katrina victims than to white ones. The race penalty, on average, totaled about $1,000 per black victim.

As Iyengar and his colleagues subsequently dug deeper into these data, another finding emerged: Republicans consistently gave less aid, and gave over a shorter period of time, to victims regardless of race.

Democrats and independents were far more generous; on average, they gave Katrina victims on average more than $1,500 a month, compared with $1,200 for Republicans, and for 13 months instead of nine.

But for Democrats, race mattered -- and in a disturbing way. Overall, Democrats were willing to give whites about $1,500 more than they chose to give to a black or other minority. (Even with this race penalty, Democrats still were willing to give more to blacks than those principled Republicans.) "Republicans are likely to be more stringent, both in terms of money and time, Iyengar said. "However, their position is 'principled' in the sense that it stems from a strong belief in individualism (as opposed to handouts). Thus their responses to the assistance questions are relatively invariant across the different media conditions. Independents and Democrats, on the other hand, are more likely to be affected by racial cues."

To test the effects of race, participants in the study were asked to read a news article about Katrina victims. Some read a story featuring a white person. Some read identical stories -- except the victim was black, Asian or Hispanic. Then they were asked how much assistance they think the government should give to help hurricane victims. Approximately 2,300 people participated in the study.

Iyengar said he's not surprised by the latest findings: "This pattern of results matches perfectly an earlier study I did on race and crime" with Franklin D. Gilliam Jr. of UCLA. "Republicans supported tough treatment of criminals no matter what they encountered in the news. Others were more elastic in their position, coming to support more harsh measures when the criminal suspect they encountered was non-white."


Did you notice how liberals, once again, fit the big-spending stereotype. They sure are generous when they hand out other people's money and they're racist to boot. Republicans are race-neutral but they're stingy when spending government money.

How did you put it? Oh yes, get over it. Liberals should come to terms with their inner Klansman.

:( so sad that people who support Obama want to see blacks hanging from trees :(
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

FIxing it going forward requires change...on all peoples behalf.

Just got back from San Fran...several meetings with homless coalitions. Guess the one common thread all the homeless groups, unemployed groups, tenants rights groups, etc ALL have in common. Give up? They all deman more from those that are wealthy. They demand change from the government...fed, and local. They demand more resources. You know what is NEVER mentioned? The homeless. There is never even a consideration for changing the environment that creates thesituation and for personal responsibility

Of course not. It has nothing to do with changing a ****ing thing. It's all about political power and governmental control of the citizenry.

Fewer poor people means fewer votes. :rofl
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

FIxing it going forward requires change...on all peoples behalf.

Just got back from San Fran...several meetings with homless coalitions. Guess the one common thread all the homeless groups, unemployed groups, tenants rights groups, etc ALL have in common. Give up? They all deman more from those that are wealthy. They demand change from the government...fed, and local. They demand more resources. You know what is NEVER mentioned? The homeless. There is never even a consideration for changing the environment that creates thesituation and for personal responsibility

Homes in the United States were never more affordable than now.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

Homes in the United States were never more affordable than now.

That is true. And if you do not have to sell one you already own and have a mortgage on and have a pile of money to get the new one with, you are in the catbird seat. For everybody else, not so much.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

have I ever said so? no. I recognize the reality of cultural discrimination. Employers could care less about the pigmentation - they care about the productivity versus costs.
And they believe certain pigmentation lead to more productivity, so yes, "they" (not all employers by the way) care about race. This semantics BS is starting to get tiring. And yes, you have all but said that you approve of racial discrimination, except instead of explicitly saying it you say "blacks don't have a subculture that encourages success" so it makes sense to discriminate against them.

indeed they are. Cosby is right on this issue - blacks are currently generally their own worst enemy (same could be said of most consistently lower-income whites)
debatable.

.
yep.

see: cpwill's posts in the education forum, consistent support of vouchers to allow poor urban minorities to escape failing school systems.
it's good that you acknowledge unequal opportunity, but vouchers only help already successful kids whose parents are involved in their education. the most at risk kids are the ones who don't have either - but that's another topic.
 
:( so sad that people who support Obama want to see blacks hanging from trees :(


Another study presented at the conference, which was in Palm Springs, Calif., explored relationships between racial bias and political affiliation by analyzing self-reported beliefs, voting patterns and the results of psychological tests that measure implicit attitudes -- subtle stereotypes people hold about various groups.

That study found that supporters of President Bush and other conservatives had stronger self-admitted and implicit biases against blacks than liberals did.

...


The analysis found that substantial majorities of Americans, liberals and conservatives, found it more difficult to associate black faces with positive concepts than white faces -- evidence of implicit bias. But districts that registered higher levels of bias systematically produced more votes for Bush.

"Obviously, such research does not speak at all to the question of the prejudice level of the president," said Banaji, "but it does show that George W. Bush is appealing as a leader to those Americans who harbor greater anti-black prejudice."


Study Ties Political Leanings to Hidden Biases

So sad that Republicans are racist bastards. Are we done yet?
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

And they believe certain pigmentation lead to more productivity, so yes, "they" (not all employers by the way) care about race.

no, they don't. they think that different cultures lead to more or less productivity, and they are correct.

This semantics BS is starting to get tiring. And yes, you have all but said that you approve of racial discrimination, except instead of explicitly saying it you say "blacks don't have a subculture that encourages success" so it makes sense to discriminate against them.

:shrug: which doesn't in any way make it an affront to physical race. that is why if a black man speaks well, dresses nicely, shows up early, and demonstrates an active mind, he tends to do as well as his white counterparts that demonstrate the same. Thomas Sowell, for example, has done some excellent work demonstrating that blacks that are raised by both parents in a house where they are read to as children tend to have the same success as whites raised in the same circumstance. The problem comes not from racism, but from the fact that the above conditions apply to a significantly smaller percentage of blacks than whites, and (again) a smaller percentage of whites than asians.

debatable.

at this point, unfortunately, not really. as i recall the figures, roughly 3/4ths of black child poverty could be solved tomorrow through the simple mechanism of having their mothers marry their fathers.


:shrug: it's legal, we have free speech. never did i say that racism was acceptable.

it's good that you acknowledge unequal opportunity, but vouchers only help already successful kids whose parents are involved in their education.

this is incorrect, vouchers are overwhelmingly popular with black parents for precisely the reasons that I outlined.
 
See what people like Carson starts?
You realize that I wasn't serious right. I'm playing tit for tat. FTR, Carson don't really "start" anything. We're all responsible for our own behavior.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

The Libbos are never going to see the light, until things fall completely apart and they look up, dumb-struck and say, "****, this ain't workin".

I mean, 30+ years of equal oppurtunity legislation and the black unemployment rate is at it's highest in...27 years!
 
You realize that I wasn't serious right. I'm playing tit for tat. FTR, Carson don't really "start" anything. We're all responsible for our own behavior.

Yes you were and you know damn well that you were serious.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

no, they don't. they think that different cultures lead to more or less productivity, and they are correct.
Cultures...based on race. You differentiated cultures by race - Asians, whites, blacks (well Asian is more ethnicity, but you get the picture). I hate semantics games.

:shrug: which doesn't in any way make it an affront to physical race. that is why if a black man speaks well, dresses nicely, shows up early, and demonstrates an active mind, he tends to do as well as his white counterparts that demonstrate the same. Thomas Sowell, for example, has done some excellent work demonstrating that blacks that are raised by both parents in a house where they are read to as children tend to have the same success as whites raised in the same circumstance. The problem comes not from racism, but from the fact that the above conditions apply to a significantly smaller percentage of blacks than whites, and (again) a smaller percentage of whites than asians.
You do realize that there are countless examples where this is not the case. I linked to an Abercrombie and Fitch lawsuit where they had to pay $50 million for discrimination based on race because certain races didn't fit the "look" of the company. There hundreds, if not, thousands of similar cases. It's not just about "dressing nicely and speaking well". I think we live in two completely separate realities.

at this point, unfortunately, not really. as i recall the figures, roughly 3/4ths of black child poverty could be solved tomorrow through the simple mechanism of having their mothers marry their fathers.
Yes, we live in two separate realities.


:shrug: it's legal, we have free speech. never did i say that racism was acceptable.
well of course you wouldn't ever say that. what you said was, "X race is known for Y culture", therefore employers don't hire that race as much for productivity and I like productivity. Like I said before, conservatives have become creative with their language.

this is incorrect, vouchers are overwhelmingly popular with black parents for precisely the reasons that I outlined.
actually, it is correct. something being popular doesn't make it successful.
 
You want to keep playing these games? I can go all night.

Sure, let's party. That study doesn't control for familiarity or interaction. Look at this chart - white people in districts with low African American populations were more likely to vote for Obama than white people living in districts with high levels of African American population.

statevotebyrace.png



The point is that when you do an implicit bias test you need to control for EXACTLY WHAT that implicit bias is referring to. Whites in Vermont whose principal exposure to blacks is by watching TV will have a different implicit bias than whites who live side by side with blacks in Detroit or Atlanta. Both good and bad biases form. If you want to understand something then you have to ask the proper questions.

In this case, why is it that as the black proportion of a state increases there is less white support for Obama? If you think it's racism, then why are the most racist whites living in the most racially diverse states and the least racist whites are living in the least racially diverse states. Look at Portland, Oregon, a mecca for white liberals. New Geography reports:


Among the media, academia and within planning circles, there’s a generally standing answer to the question of what cities are the best, the most progressive and best role models for small and mid-sized cities. The standard list includes Portland, Seattle, Austin, Minneapolis, and Denver. In particular, Portland is held up as a paradigm, with its urban growth boundary, extensive transit system, excellent cycling culture, and a pro-density policy. These cities are frequently contrasted with those of the Rust Belt and South, which are found wanting, often even by locals, as “cool” urban places.

But look closely at these exemplars and a curious fact emerges. If you take away the dominant Tier One cities like New York, Chicago and Los Angeles you will find that the “progressive” cities aren’t red or blue, but another color entirely: white.

In fact, not one of these “progressive” cities even reaches the national average for African American percentage population in its core county. Perhaps not progressiveness but whiteness is the defining characteristic of the group.


 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

That is true. And if you do not have to sell one you already own and have a mortgage on and have a pile of money to get the new one with, you are in the catbird seat. For everybody else, not so much.

Then it would seem that 'homelessness' is a poorly defined term for the predicament of these people. There would appear to be other problems involved quite apart from not owning or being unqualified to rent a home. Mental illness perhaps, drug use, alcoholism. severe depression.

I feel that the term 'homelessness' was often a catchall term used for political purposes rather than clearly defining where the problems truly were.
 
You realize that I wasn't serious right. I'm playing tit for tat. FTR, Carson don't really "start" anything. We're all responsible for our own behavior.

Well, yes, I agree with that and I understood your position but the last thing we need is for people to start crap like this when even he realized he was wrong in saying it.
 
Yes you were and you know damn well that you were serious.
Uhh...no. Perhaps you should read the conversation again. Riverdad posted a study saying liberals were racist and posted one from the same source that said conservatives are racist. Do you really not understand that context? This thread is so stupid.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

And they believe certain pigmentation lead to more productivity, so yes,

And women who see a man approaching them on the sidewalk late at night think that they are at greater risk because of the person's sexual organs. Women are sexual discriminators. Boo women. Time to send women to leftist reeducation camps.
 
Uhh...no. Perhaps you should read the conversation again. Riverdad posted a study saying liberals were racist and posted one from the same source that said conservatives are racist. Do you really not understand that context? This thread is so stupid.

If you're going to play "he started it first" then at least do so honestly and note that my comment was in response to:


I know people in the Tea Party movement who would very much like to see black people hanging from trees. I don't consider them representative of the entire movement, but that element does exist in the Tea Party movement. Get over it. You can't pretend it doesn't exist just because it is inconvenient.​


You don't take offense at that statement. Why not?
 
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