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Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

To me what you're saying just sounds like some jackass saying that as long as some women dress slutty we shouldn't do anything about rape... It's beyond sick.

People are stereotyped. Sorry. It happens. You stereotype people, just like anyone else.



Of course there are... Not sure what weight you think that has in our debate.

Because you keep saying that racism is the only reason that blacks don't get as many job interviews as whites.



Nobody is proposing sitting around boo-hooing anything... Not sure where you get that angle from. We're talking about whether or not our society should fight against discrimination or not. You are arguing that it should not.... Right?

So far, the strategy used to fight discrimination hasn't worked for the whole of the black community.



For about 10 years I ran the professional services departments in a couple different software companies. Then I got bored of that and went to law school a year ago.

I'm thinking you don't have alotta contact with the brothers and can only form an opinion on a study done by a bunch of white hand wringers, whom are overcome with white guilt and feel obligated to come up with excuses as to why blacks are less successful than whites and the conclusion they keep coming back to is...it's whitey's fault.

Let's revisit this subject when you have some more real world experience in the working class; and no, college isn't the real world.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

So you are the standard for 300 plus million people all over the nation? Amazing!!!!!

I believe I'm closer to it than you are.

What is it that you do for a living?
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

I have to give it to the conservatives in this thread - you have all become VERY good at disguising your support of discrimination without actually saying the word discrimination.

Yes, it is all "veiled" and "hidden" and "disguised".

It never seems to occur to Leftists that a difference of opinion exists. Their imaginations, and education, are so limited and unimaginative that their only responses are that it must be "racism", "bigotry" or other ugly charges, and all without evidence or substantiation. This is how terribly simple the poor Left has become.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

Because you keep saying that racism is the only reason that blacks don't get as many job interviews as whites.

No, you aren't following. The study eliminated every variable except race to determine whether racism was having an impact. They found that it was. A big one. That doesn't mean it is the only factor.

So far, the strategy used to fight discrimination hasn't worked for the whole of the black community.

We've only given a very half assed attempt. Only one company has every been penalized under AA ever... Back in the first few years after the Civil Right Act when a government contractor refused to get rid of their formal policy of not hiring black people. That's it.

I'm thinking you don't have alotta contact with the brothers and can only form an opinion on a study done by a bunch of white hand wringers, whom are overcome with white guilt and feel obligated to come up with excuses as to why blacks are less successful than whites and the conclusion they keep coming back to is...it's whitey's fault.

Uh, no. I lived in DC for 10 years. I was the assistant director of a program that worked with kids on probation there for 3 years...

Let's revisit this subject when you have some more real world experience in the working class; and no, college isn't the real world.

Uh, what? Re-read the block you replied to... I've worked for a total of about 18 years. 10 of it running entire departments at software companies. I've been on the committees for hiring about 150-200 people and I've personally hired about 50...
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

No, you aren't following. The study eliminated every variable except race to determine whether racism was having an impact. They found that it was. A big one. That doesn't mean it is the only factor.



We've only given a very half assed attempt. Only one company has every been penalized under AA ever... Back in the first few years after the Civil Right Act when a government contractor refused to get rid of their formal policy of not hiring black people. That's it.



Uh, no. I lived in DC for 10 years. I was the assistant director of a program that worked with kids on probation there for 3 years...



Uh, what? Re-read the block you replied to... I've worked for a total of about 18 years. 10 of it running entire departments at software companies. I've been on the committees for hiring about 150-200 people and I've personally hired about 50...

Sounds to me like the study was rigged to have the desired outcome.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

Honestly, man to man, on my honor, I swear to you that I absolutely want to see racism die off. In fact, if I had to choose between one scenario where racism was completely erased, but Republicans won every election in the nation for 40 years and another scenario where racism continued as is, but Democrats won every election in the nation for 40 years, truthfully I would opt for the first scenario over the later. In my view it is hands down the most serious cause of very real human suffering in this country.

When someone starts with that "I swear to you".....Its bull****. They will take you for a ride

Answer this *truthfully*.....

Colin Powell endorsed Obama for the same reason that 95% of blacks voted for him. Because of race, pure and simple. A perfect illustration of the double standard in this country.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

That's just the standard blanket explanation for everything the right uses for everything- "if something is wrong, it must be the government's fault", that is not a real argument.

Just as quoting from air is no real argument. Use some genuine quotes and then you might have a debate. Do you feel all government is good or are problems frequently the government's fault?

Most people realize the need for cooperative government, but are also aware that once given power, it tends to corrupt. Lord Acton famously pointed this out generations ago and, apart from Leftists, most people recognize the truth in that today.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

Just as quoting from air is no real argument. Use some genuine quotes and then you might have a debate. Do you feel all government is good or are problems frequently the government's fault?

Most people realize the need for cooperative government, but are also aware that once given power, it tends to corrupt. Lord Acton famously pointed this out generations ago and, apart from Leftists, most people recognize the truth in that today.

Government, like corporations, can do both good and bad. Corporations are better at producing the best goods at the lowest cost, but they don't represent people beyond that scope. Government represents the interests of the people, but can be inefficient. So you pick the right tool for the right job and you use them to keep one another in check. Just ceding control of the world to corporations as right wingers push for would obviously be a total disaster.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

Sounds to me like the study was rigged to have the desired outcome.

Do you just not understand how science works or what? That's what you do- eliminate all the variables other than the one you want to study to see what impact that one has.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

When someone starts with that "I swear to you".....Its bull****. They will take you for a ride

Well, I don't know what else to tell you. Your paranoid conspiracy theories about the left are not only wrong, they're obviously ridiculous.

Colin Powell endorsed Obama for the same reason that 95% of blacks voted for him. Because of race, pure and simple. A perfect illustration of the double standard in this country.

You're just making an assumption. The majority of the entire country voted for Obama. For obvious reasons- because Bush showed us unequivocally that the right wing philosophy fails completely on all fronts- economically, in terms of national security, in terms of the budget, in terms of civil rights, international relations... Why anybody would have voted for more of that I have no idea...
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

teamsoil, the field study you presented is interesting, and I don't think that anyone in these forums would say that unequivocally racism doesn't exist. You can't legislate what is in some men's hearts. however, the meme that racism is a bastion solely existent on the right, or a prevue of corporations, or in business in general if that business is ran by a white businessman, is pure pap. And studies that try and make that correlation often start with their desired premise in mind and therefore it is no surprise when their results show exactly what they wanted to show.

We have come a long way, do we have more to go? sure. But the recent sliming with racism at every turn as a tactic to shut down debate on policy of a sitting administration solely because his policies are failing is what it should be seen for, excuse, and deflection. And shameful at that.


j-mac
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

You can't legislate what is in some men's hearts.

That's true, but you can legislate what they do. You can use the law to fight against discrimination. Does that mean you'll have some people out there complaining about how you are "race baiting" and claiming you're just making it up? Yeah, but that price is well worth paying.

however, the meme that racism is a bastion solely existent on the right, or a prevue of corporations, or in business in general if that business is ran by a white businessman, is pure pap.

I would certainly not agree with any of those memes.

We have come a long way, do we have more to go? sure. But the recent sliming with racism at every turn as a tactic to shut down debate on policy of a sitting administration solely because his policies are failing is what it should be seen for, excuse, and deflection. And shameful at that.

I don't think it has anything to do with Obama except that maybe some of the actual racism was stirred up by some people being uncomfortable with the idea of a black man being president. People don't get attacked for criticizing Obama on policy and the vast majority of conversations about racism don't have any connection to Obama at all.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

Do you just not understand how science works or what? That's what you do- eliminate all the variables other than the one you want to study to see what impact that one has.

I know that scientific studies can be manipulated to achieve a desired outcome. i.e. global warming research.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

I know that scientific studies can be manipulated to achieve a desired outcome. i.e. global warming research.

Oh God. You're one of those anti-science meta conspiracy theorists eh? Ah well, I thought you were a serious person.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

teamsoil, the field study you presented is interesting, and I don't think that anyone in these forums would say that unequivocally racism doesn't exist. You can't legislate what is in some men's hearts. however, the meme that racism is a bastion solely existent on the right, or a prevue of corporations, or in business in general if that business is ran by a white businessman, is pure pap. And studies that try and make that correlation often start with their desired premise in mind and therefore it is no surprise when their results show exactly what they wanted to show.

We have come a long way, do we have more to go? sure. But the recent sliming with racism at every turn as a tactic to shut down debate on policy of a sitting administration solely because his policies are failing is what it should be seen for, excuse, and deflection. And shameful at that.

j-mac
People will continue to talk about and debate race and racism so long as they remain relevant to experiences of many Americans. Attempts by conservatives to sweep the issue under the rug by accusing those who bring it up of "pulling the race card" and similar arguments will not stop the discussion from happening. In fact, it is those attempts that make conversations about race and racism more frequent and intense than they have to be. There's nothing like covering one's ears to a reality that one doesn't want to face that inspires people to shout louder.

Discussions about racism can and do coexist with discussions about policy. From what I know, most liberals understand this. It seems to be conservatives who think it must be one or other as they are the ones who accuse liberals of using race to divert from policy discussions when the hundreds of threads on policy w/o any mention of race are proof enough that that assertion is a myth.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

People will continue to talk about and debate race and racism so long as they remain relevant to experiences of many Americans.

As long as we have racist groups in Washington there is no chance of racism ending.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

I know that scientific studies can be manipulated to achieve a desired outcome. i.e. global warming research.

So, in the end, you are left with just your beliefs that you believe because you want to believe them. Although in your case it sounds like you started out in the beginning with that same mindset also.
 
He ought to apologize and save what is left of his dignity. Even IF Tea Party organizations tend to have more racists among their ranks (and that is a big IF), that still doesn't translate into "Tea Party politicians want to see us hanging from trees and going back to the old Jim Crow laws." Point out all of the specific instances of right-wing racism all you want (the Birther movement, some Tea Party people with bigoted signs, radio hosts taking racist jabs at Obama, etc.), but it is foolish to smear an entire political movement with the R-word.
 
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Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

Yep, they were shown to have had a long standing policy of not hiring minorities and were fined $40 million.

Which was one of the stupidest judgments I've ever seen. A&F purposely designed their marketing to reach a specific demographic group - white upper class young people.

This is like telling a Chinese restaurant that they cannot favor hiring Asian people. Who wants to go to a Chinese restaurant staffed by red-headed Scotsman wearing kilts?
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

No, you aren't following. The study eliminated every variable except race to determine whether racism was having an impact. They found that it was. A big one. That doesn't mean it is the only factor.

Why do you persist in advancing this lie? Well, I do know why, you're more interesting in advancing a partisan talking point than you are in representing the truth.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

He ought to apologize and save what is left of his dignity. Even IF Tea Party organizations tend to have more racists among their ranks (and that is a big IF), that still doesn't translate into "Tea Party politicians want to see us hanging from trees and going back to the old Jim Crow laws." Point out all of the specific instances of right-wing racism all you want (the Birther movement, some Tea Party people with bigoted signs, radio hosts taking racist jabs at Obama, etc.), but it is foolish to smear an entire political movement with the R-word.

Alright, first thing's first...

Rep. Andre Carson DID NOT call the entire Tea Party movement racist. What he said was:

“Well, I wasn't talking about the entire tea party. I think the tea party is absolutely right when they call for increased transparency in government, when they call for a cutback on excessive government spending. I am deeply concerned about some elements of the tea party who are extremist and who have reflected a mentality going back to the John Birch society, going back to George Wallace's Dixiecrats,” Carson said.

How posters to this or any of the other threads discussing this matter could have missed this clarifying rebuttal somewhat baffles me. Perhaps it could be that while Republicans/Conservatives are quick to condemn Rep. Carson for his commentary, folks failed to seek out exactly what was said and instead did the very thing some have accussed others of doing here - painting people with a broad brush.

The question asked by justabubba...

rather than whine about him daring to express his opinion, why don't you instead share with us what is found wrong about his observations

...is an important and valid question to ask. Clearly, not everyone involved with the Tea Party movement are racist. However, I don't think anyone can deny that there are racist elements within the Tea Party movement. As haymarket has pointed out, there have been members of the Tea Party movement who have presented racist signs or wore T-shirts with questionable racist comments on them. And if Tea Party members haven't said things that can be clearly defined as racist, some among them have made statements have racist undertones. Take Rep. Joe Walsh, for example. Recently in a MSNBC.com with Martin Bashir, Rep. Walsh was asked about the allegations of racism within the Tea Party movement. When confronted directly on the matter asking specifically if Walsh believed people voted for President Obama just because he was Black, Walsh replied "because it was a historical moment in this nation's history". (You can watch the video exchange here.) Although Rep. Walsh's answer was correct, it gives the impression that that's the only reason some people voted for the nation's 44th President - because he was Black. However, it does bring into question why Rep. Walsh is so upset with Pres. Obama. He says that it's a matter of the President's "failed policies", but when you listen to him in the video he gives far more respect to Congress assembling on behalf of foreign heads of state than he does his nation's president. This tells me there's more going on here than just a person being upset over policy matters. But I invite the readers/viewers to watch the video interview and really listen to what's said and make your own conclusion.

For me, while I will agree that not every member of the Tea Party are racist, I do believe there are racist elements within the movement. However, I would also like to read transcripts or view video commentary of the type of visceral comments made by those Tea Party members Rep. Carson accuses of being racist. Just as the videos of Mrs. Sherly Sherrod and her association with the NAACP suddenly popped up (a video that later disproved the racist allegation levied against her), I would like to see videos of racism levied against the Tea Party if they're out there. So, if you have 'em post them here for all to see.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

Why do you persist in advancing this lie? Well, I do know why, you're more interesting in advancing a partisan talking point than you are in representing the truth.

Advancing a lie? Oh... You're going off about that thing where resumes don't say everything about a person again... That's still irrelevant though... The researchers eliminated every difference that the applicant presents to the employer except race. Your theory about that they are using race as a way to guess at other factors is just another way of saying "yup, they're discriminating on the basis of race"... You keep repeating it like it's somehow an argument for your side, but it's just a flat out concession of the debate...
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

Which was one of the stupidest judgments I've ever seen. A&F purposely designed their marketing to reach a specific demographic group - white upper class young people.

This is like telling a Chinese restaurant that they cannot favor hiring Asian people. Who wants to go to a Chinese restaurant staffed by red-headed Scotsman wearing kilts?

It would be a pretty good bet that there were many jobs that had little to do with the marketing end people see. Now this part is really none of my business. If their marketing is flawed, not my problem but I'm not sure why they would feel that things that upper class white people like wouldn't appeal to upper class black people.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

Rep. Andre Carson DID NOT call the entire Tea Party movement racist. What he said was:

How posters to this or any of the other threads discussing this matter could have missed this clarifying rebuttal somewhat baffles me. Perhaps it could be that while Republicans/Conservatives are quick to condemn Rep. Carson for his commentary, folks failed to seek out exactly what was said and instead did the very thing some have accussed others of doing here - painting people with a broad brush.

That was a failed attempt on his part to admit he was wrong. He couldn't say it so he has to try and make up more crap. Not a single actual position to back up his accusations. No, it was just the ramblings of a bigot.

...is an important and valid question to ask. Clearly, not everyone involved with the Tea Party movement are racist. However, I don't think anyone can deny that there are racist elements within the Tea Party movement. As haymarket has pointed out, there have been members of the Tea Party movement who have presented racist signs or wore T-shirts with questionable racist comments on them.

All that was provided was a picture of someone comparing Obama with a monkey which was done with Bush hundreds of times.

And if Tea Party members haven't said things that can be clearly defined as racist, some among them have made statements have racist undertones. Take Rep. Joe Walsh, for example. Recently in a MSNBC.com with Martin Bashir, Rep. Walsh was asked about the allegations of racism within the Tea Party movement. When confronted directly on the matter asking specifically if Walsh believed people voted for President Obama just because he was Black, Walsh replied "because it was a historical moment in this nation's history". (You can watch the video exchange here.) Although Rep. Walsh's answer was correct, it gives the impression that that's the only reason some people voted for the nation's 44th President - because he was Black. However, it does bring into question why Rep. Walsh is so upset with Pres. Obama. He says that it's a matter of the President's "failed policies", but when you listen to him in the video he gives far more respect to Congress assembling on behalf of foreign heads of state than he does his nation's president. This tells me there's more going on here than just a person being upset over policy matters. But I invite the readers/viewers to watch the video interview and really listen to what's said and make your own conclusion.

He's correct but it was wrong because you feel there were racist undertones to it? It was either correct or not. If it was correct it was simply factual. I'm also curious, why is the CBC never called out for their outright racism?
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

It would be a pretty good bet that there were many jobs that had little to do with the marketing end people see. Now this part is really none of my business. If their marketing is flawed, not my problem but I'm not sure why they would feel that things that upper class white people like wouldn't appeal to upper class black people.

They did put people into backroom operations when the people didn't meet the company's "Look Policy."

The company was using its employees as advertisments of its brand image. Who here finds Chinese Food products marketed by bearded red-headed Scottish lads wearing kilts to be effective brand management for Chinese Food Products? How about advertising for feminine hygiene products pitched by men?
 
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