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Thread: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    However, all one has to do is watch a little MSNBC, or any of the three lemming news broadcasts to see these memes develop and be put out there as the narrative....It's Bull.

    j-mac
    I don't watch cable news much so I wouldn't know, but I suspect while some may throw in race out of nowhere, others probably just talk about it when race is relevant. Usually when I turn on those stations, they're just mocking conservatives and Fox News.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    My "defense" where the ColoradoSprings article is concerned was merely to show how one derogatory term has a racial sting to it when espoused to African Americans. You, on the other hand, have attempted to claim that I've used the phrase as evidence that they were spoken by a member of the Tea Party whom Rep. Carson has raised racial allegations against. I have done no such thing where this particular article is concerned.
    I get it...you, like others...simply cant understand how I can post your comments that the idiotic race baiting ramblings of a congressman are 'true' but you, like he, shouldnt have to justify them. Then you post a poorly chosed word that may or may not be construed as racist to justify that indeed...Tea PArty politicians are in fact racist and want to see black people lynched. You STILL dont have the grace to simply say...yes...the congressmans comments were idiotic and race baiting and rtepresent the worst of what poltiicians are and do.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Well...there you go again. In other words...you defend the comments...excuse the comments...justify the comments...may not agree with the comments but they are still right...and shame on me for pointing out that you and others here defend the comments. I gotcha...
    Okay, whatever you say man.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Okay, whatever you say man.
    Thats NOT precisely what you did? Of course it is. And You STILL cant bring yourself to simply say "Carson and the other politicians whyo made similar comments were simply wrong."

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Is it possible. Now...work with me here...is it POSSIBLE that the term "Tar Baby" DOESNT mean the same thing to some people as apparently it does to you and others? You used it and this one instance as your defense of "Tea Party politicians are racist" (the only reasin we are talking about it...you brought it up). But could it be that he WASNT being racist? I cited two other examples in YOUR cited story that OBVIOUSLY arent racist uses of the term.
    It's completely possible that representative Lamborn used it merely to refer to "a sticky situation." But, once again, the term has well-known racial connotations. We'll never know what was actually going through his mind when he said that, but to his credit, he did apologize.

    I should also mention - and I feel like I've repeated myself too many times on this issue - racism and racial prejudice, these days, mostly occur on a subtle, subconscious level. I'm guilty of it, almost all of us are guilty of it to some extent or another, of pre-judging people based on their skin color, or how they dress, or their appearance, or whatnot. It's simply how the mind works. The problem is that racial prejudice has been reinforced by the media. Gone are the days of Jim Crow, blatant, in-your-face, racism. So people who harbor racially prejudiced attitudes usually don't put them "out there," or worse, might not even be aware that they hold such attitudes. Such is how subtle racism operates; on the subconscious level.

    You want to have a discussion of what the "Tea Party" is? Fine. Great. having that discussion within a thread where Tea Party members are accused of wanting to see black folks strung up might not be the best venue. But based on what and who I know...Tea Party people believe in LEGAL immigration (and site 20-30 million illegal immigrants, 14 million jobless Americans, etc) and enforcement of laws. They believe in smaller and more fiscally conservative federal government (and use as their justification a 15.5 trillion dollar and climbing debt). Thats pretty much the extent of it. Do YOU believe in legal immigration and enforcement of existing laws? Do YOU believe the government should be fiscally conservative? Good lord, SB...is it possible you are a xenophobe too?
    I agree with Perry's bit about the use of labels, and I apologize if you felt that I meant them to have any negative connotation. Saying that Tea Party members hold nativist attitudes is qualitatively and substantively no different than saying liberals generally critical of corporations or concentration of money. They are simply attitudes.

    As for my own views - I am a liberal. I believe in an activist government ("big government" if you will). That does not mean that I don't believe in a fiscally prudent government. I think the government should pay its bills and cut deficits. I believe in the role of government as problem-solver. It can't solve all of society's ills, but in many cases it is the institution that is most suited to do so. Some problems are better left to the states, some better left to the federal gov't.

    I believe the conversation about illegal immigration to be misguided - the root of the problem lies with the push factors that are causing people to cross our border illegally, and laws that inadequalely take into account the situations of people, who for whatever reason, overstay their visa. Everything else we talk about afterwards is just talking about what the bandaid should look like rather than what the cause of the illness is. Anyway, this is for another discussion.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Thats NOT precisely what you did? Of course it is. And You STILL cant bring yourself to simply say "Carson and the other politicians whyo made similar comments were simply wrong."
    Like I said, whatever you say. I'm not here to repeat after you.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I get it...you, like others...simply cant understand how I can post your comments that the idiotic race baiting ramblings of a congressman are 'true' but you, like he, shouldnt have to justify them. Then you post a poorly chosed word that may or may not be construed as racist to justify that indeed...Tea PArty politicians are in fact racist and want to see black people lynched. You STILL dont have the grace to simply say...yes...the congressmans comments were idiotic and race baiting and rtepresent the worst of what poltiicians are and do.
    I did not paint anyone other than the man who linked the President with the term "tar-baby" as utterring a term known to African Americans to be a racial slur. You are the one attempting to put words in my mouth. Moreover, I suggest you go back and re-read my initial post to this thread on page 60, post #596 to truly guage where I've been coming from since that post related to the thread topic.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    It's completely possible that representative Lamborn used it merely to refer to "a sticky situation." But, once again, the term has well-known racial connotations. We'll never know what was actually going through his mind when he said that, but to his credit, he did apologize.

    I should also mention - and I feel like I've repeated myself too many times on this issue - racism and racial prejudice, these days, mostly occur on a subtle, subconscious level. I'm guilty of it, almost all of us are guilty of it to some extent or another, of pre-judging people based on their skin color, or how they dress, or their appearance, or whatnot. It's simply how the mind works. The problem is that racial prejudice has been reinforced by the media. Gone are the days of Jim Crow, blatant, in-your-face, racism. So people who harbor racially prejudiced attitudes usually don't put them "out there," or worse, might not even be aware that they hold such attitudes. Such is how subtle racism operates; on the subconscious level.

    I agree with Perry's bit about the use of labels, and I apologize if you felt that I meant them to have any negative connotation. Saying that Tea Party members hold nativist attitudes is qualitatively and substantively no different than saying liberals generally critical of corporations or concentration of money. They are simply attitudes.

    As for my own views - I am a liberal. I believe in an activist government ("big government" if you will). That does not mean that I don't believe in a fiscally prudent government. I think the government should pay its bills and cut deficits. I believe in the role of government as problem-solver. It can't solve all of society's ills, but in many cases it is the institution that is most suited to do so. Some problems are better left to the states, some better left to the federal gov't.

    I believe the conversation about illegal immigration to be misguided - the root of the problem lies with the push factors that are causing people to cross our border illegally, and laws that inadequalely take into account the situations of people, who for whatever reason, overstay their visa. Everything else we talk about afterwards is just talking about what the bandaid should look like rather than what the cause of the illness is. Anyway, this is for another discussion.
    My objection is the frequency which these kinds of arguments (race baiting comments, blanket attacks)are made and then, instead of laying waste to the arguments, they are justified and used as a springboard attack. I see a day in the not to near future that our streets are going to experience similar events to what we have seen recently in Europe. Its repulsive. People like congressman Carson will bear responsibility and the truly sad part is that it wont make things better...it will make things worse. Things in this country HAVE gotten better with regard to race relationships. Still have a way to go, but race baiting isnt going to help.

    Honest disagreements about fiscal responsibility are not a foundation for racial attacks. I find the congressmans words and actions repugnant and irresponsible. When the nation is facing continued debt, climbing unemployment, and no solutions in site and race rhetoric is all you have...then maybe its time for new representation.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    My objection is the frequency which these kinds of arguments (race baiting comments, blanket attacks)are made and then, instead of laying waste to the arguments, they are justified and used as a springboard attack. I see a day in the not to near future that our streets are going to experience similar events to what we have seen recently in Europe. Its repulsive. People like congressman Carson will bear responsibility and the truly sad part is that it wont make things better...it will make things worse. Things in this country HAVE gotten better with regard to race relationships. Still have a way to go, but race baiting isnt going to help.

    Honest disagreements about fiscal responsibility are not a foundation for racial attacks. I find the congressmans words and actions repugnant and irresponsible. When the nation is facing continued debt, climbing unemployment, and no solutions in site and race rhetoric is all you have...then maybe its time for new representation.
    Race baiting...happens on both sides, honestly. Still, I see it as one would view contact sports...the ref rarely sees the guy who committed the initial illegal hit, but he'll throw the red flag the moment he sees someone retaliate. Same goes for Rep. Carson's comments. Was he wrong? Over the top? I'd say he was if he can't ponit directly to whomever within the congressional Tea Party membership made the "lynching" statement. Otherwise, his words were indeed inflamatory in that regard. However, I do believe there are elements of racism within the Tea Party movement. We've all seen evidence of this in the various media clips. To think otherwise is to believe there's not a racist among us. Liberal plants you say? It's possible, but I find it difficult for the Democrat party to subvert every localized Tea Party organization out there. So, my question to the readers is isn't it just as possible that some within the movement are acting alone as it is that there have been liberal plants out there?

    Race baiting happens on both sides. We do more to stop it when ban together and point it out whoever does it than we do by pointing fingers at each other.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Thanks Perry.

    For the record, I don't mean nativism and xenophobia to have negative connotations (but I admit that often they do). To me, those attitudes generally signify an aversion to societal change, fear unease, or concern about immigration both legal and illegal, and in general a change to what it means to "be American," fear of a change of a shifting American identity. That is what I mean.
    Outside of a discussion around legal immigration, I wouldn't say that was far off.

    I don't know if MOST Tea Party members exhibit these characteristics, but I believe they exhibit these attitudes more so than the rest of the population.

    And obviously, even if we're not talking about the Tea Party, these attitudes still exist at large among the American population - just look at all the comments about Obama not being truly American, etc. This is what I mean by nativism.
    I don't disagree.

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