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Thread: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Trying to defend Carson's statement. One only needs to know one thing about the CBC. They only let you join if you are the correct color. White? no. Hispanic? No. Asian? No.

    Do you feel groups that only allow membership based upon color should be a part of our government?
    Yes and No. There are dozens of "caucus" in Congress and not all are based on race or ethnicity. Most are, however, exclusionary. There are caucuses for Blacks, for women, for Hispanics, for Veterans. There are also professional caucuses, i.e., for doctors, as well as for specific organizations or foreign entities. While I don't agree that any one caucus should be made up of members of any single racial group, I do acknowledge their right to exsist under House rules and/or Senate rules. So, if you have a problem with it, might I suggest your write your Congressman?

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    SB...you need to stop defending the indefensable. Using an argument by an idiotic congressman as a platform to launch your own bigoted attack is pretty reprehensible. You dont LIKE bigotry then stop BEING a bigot. MOST Tea Party people I know are interested in nothing more than a smaller and more fiscally conservative government.
    I'm not sure where SB is going but labels are a problem. Both in the use and the reaction. Both words simply mean that people feel more comfortable around people they are used to. That would describe the vast majority of people. In that regard it's a perfectly benign statement that really doesn't mean much. If SB is saying that those who are Tea Party members are likely more at ease with the known as opposed to change, then really, I wouldn't disagree. Sometimes that can be positive and sometimes not.

    Sometimes people use these terms as blanket bitter statements with intent to inflame as their meaning can expand beyond that. Ask for context.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I don't know the history of the term precisely, but I do know it has clear racial connotations. And once again, I have to repeat myself that I DO NOT BELIEVE the Tea Party, as a whole, to be a racist movement. You simply asked for an example, and I provided one.

    And beyond that, I'm not a Tea Party bigot. I respect their right to have their own views, and I have friends and parents of friends who are Tea Party supporters, believe it or not. I simply wish to have an honest discussion about who they are and what characteristics they exhibit.

    Slinging around terms like "bigot" is just as idiotic as doing the same with the term "racist." It obscures honest discussion, which happens too little these days. You criticize the President, you're called a racist. You wish to call racism out, you're accused of "playing the race card." You criticize the tea party, and you're a "bigot." Hold pro-choice views, you "hate babies." Hold pro-life views, and you "hate women." Critical of Israel, you're called an anti-Semite. Critical of Palestine, you're called a Zionist. It's just more of the same bull****.

    I simply wish to have an honest discussion about who the Tea Party is. I have already made it clear that I don't believe them to be racist. If attempting to have an honest discussion about it makes me a "bigot," then Vance, ****ing take a chill pill and we can have a reasonable discussion.
    Is it possible. Now...work with me here...is it POSSIBLE that the term "Tar Baby" DOESNT mean the same thing to some people as apparently it does to you and others? You used it and this one instance as your defense of "Tea Party politicians are racist" (the only reasin we are talking about it...you brought it up). But could it be that he WASNT bewing racist? I cited two other examples in YOUR cited story that OBVIOUSLY arent racist usage of the term.

    You want to have a discussion of what the "Tea Party" is? Fine. Great. having that discussion within a thread where Tea Party members are accused of wanting to see black folks strung up might not be the best venue. But based on what and who I know...Tea Party people believe in LEGAL immigration (and site 20-30 million illegal immigrants, 14 million jobless Americans, etc) and enforcement of laws. They believe in smaller and more fiscally conservative federal government (and use as their justification a 15.5 trillion dollar and climbing debt). Thats pretty much the extent of it. Do YOU believe in legal immigration and enforcement of existing laws? Do YOU believe the government should be fiscally conservative? Good lord, SB...is it posasible you are a xenophobe too?

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Yes and No. There are dozens of "caucus" in Congress and not all are based on race or ethnicity.
    Not all? Clearly not. It wouldn't be acceptable.

    Most are, however, exclusionary. There are caucuses for Blacks, for women, for Hispanics, for Veterans. There are also professional caucuses, i.e., for doctors, as well as for specific organizations or foreign entities. While I don't agree that any one caucus should be made up of members of any single racial group, I do acknowledge their right to exsist under House rules and/or Senate rules. So, if you have a problem with it, might I suggest your write your Congressman?
    We would not have problems with an organization for doctors. Agreed. We would have a problem with an organization for only white doctors. No?

    I suggest that you can not find where it's O.K. under any of those rules. I suggest it's unconstitutional.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Yes and No. There are dozens of "caucus" in Congress and not all are based on race or ethnicity.
    Not all? Clearly not. It wouldn't be acceptable.

    Most are, however, exclusionary. There are caucuses for Blacks, for women, for Hispanics, for Veterans. There are also professional caucuses, i.e., for doctors, as well as for specific organizations or foreign entities. While I don't agree that any one caucus should be made up of members of any single racial group, I do acknowledge their right to exsist under House rules and/or Senate rules. So, if you have a problem with it, might I suggest your write your Congressman?
    We would not have problems with an organization for doctors. Agreed. We would have a problem with an organization for only white doctors. No?

    I also do not you will find House or Senate rules that O.K.'s membership based upon race.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    repeated from previous post:



    Please calm the **** down and actually read what I say.
    Is it possible. Now...work with me here...is it POSSIBLE that the term "Tar Baby" DOESNT mean the same thing to some people as apparently it does to you and others? You used it and this one instance as your defense of "Tea Party politicians are racist" (the only reasin we are talking about it...you brought it up). But could it be that he WASNT bewing racist? I cited two other examples in YOUR cited story that OBVIOUSLY arent racist usage of the term.

    You want to have a discussion of what the "Tea Party" is? Fine. Great. having that discussion within a thread where Tea Party members are accused of wanting to see black folks strung up might not be the best venue. But based on what and who I know...Tea Party people believe in LEGAL immigration (and site 20-30 million illegal immigrants, 14 million jobless Americans, etc) and enforcement of laws. They believe in smaller and more fiscally conservative federal government (and use as their justification a 15.5 trillion dollar and climbing debt). Thats pretty much the extent of it. Do YOU believe in legal immigration and enforcement of existing laws? Do YOU believe the government should be fiscally conservative? Good lord, SB...is it posasible you are a xenophobe too?

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Yes and No. There are dozens of "caucus" in Congress and not all are based on race or ethnicity.
    Not all? Clearly not. It wouldn't be acceptable.

    Most are, however, exclusionary. There are caucuses for Blacks, for women, for Hispanics, for Veterans. There are also professional caucuses, i.e., for doctors, as well as for specific organizations or foreign entities. While I don't agree that any one caucus should be made up of members of any single racial group, I do acknowledge their right to exsist under House rules and/or Senate rules. So, if you have a problem with it, might I suggest your write your Congressman?
    We would not have problems with an organization for doctors. Agreed. We would have a problem with an organization for only white doctors. No?

    I also do not you will find House or Senate rules that O.K.'s membership based upon race.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Hell son...you are using descriptive words seen here by Hatuey describing other 'blacks'. His comments were 'racist' because you WANT them to be. But seriosuly...THATS your defense? A congressman from Colorado uses the term Tar baby and you use TAHT to justify your defense that Tea Party Members want to Lynch black folk? Pathetic.
    My "defense" where the ColoradoSprings article is concerned was merely to show how one derogatory term has a racial sting to it when espoused to African Americans. You, on the other hand, have attempted to claim that I've used the phrase as evidence that they were spoken by a member of the Tea Party whom Rep. Carson has raised racial allegations against. I have done no such thing where this particular article is concerned.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I'm not sure where SB is going but labels are a problem. Both in the use and the reaction. Both words simply mean that people feel more comfortable around people they are used to. That would describe the vast majority of people. In that regard it's a perfectly benign statement that really doesn't mean much. If SB is saying that those who are Tea Party members are likely more at ease with the known as opposed to change, then really, I wouldn't disagree. Sometimes that can be positive and sometimes not.

    Sometimes people use these terms as blanket bitter statements with intent to inflame as their meaning can expand beyond that. Ask for context.
    Thanks Perry.

    For the record, I don't mean nativism and xenophobia to have negative connotations (but I admit that often they do). To me, those attitudes generally signify an aversion to societal change, fear unease, or concern about immigration both legal and illegal, and in general a change to what it means to "be American," fear of a change of a shifting American identity. That is what I mean.

    I don't know if MOST Tea Party members exhibit these characteristics, but I believe they exhibit these attitudes more so than the rest of the population.

    And obviously, even if we're not talking about the Tea Party, these attitudes still exist at large among the American population - just look at all the comments about Obama not being truly American, etc. This is what I mean by nativism.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I'm not sure where SB is going but labels are a problem. Both in the use and the reaction. Both words simply mean that people feel more comfortable around people they are used to. That would describe the vast majority of people. In that regard it's a perfectly benign statement that really doesn't mean much. If SB is saying that those who are Tea Party members are likely more at ease with the known as opposed to change, then really, I wouldn't disagree. Sometimes that can be positive and sometimes not.

    Sometimes people use these terms as blanket bitter statements with intent to inflame as their meaning can expand beyond that. Ask for context.
    Thanks Perry.

    For the record, I don't mean nativism and xenophobia to have negative connotations (but I admit that often they do). To me, those attitudes generally signify an aversion to societal change, fear unease, or concern about immigration both legal and illegal, and in general a change to what it means to "be American," fear of a change of a shifting American identity. That is what I mean.

    I don't know if MOST Tea Party members exhibit these characteristics, but I believe they exhibit these attitudes more so than the rest of the population.

    And obviously, even if we're not talking about the Tea Party, these attitudes still exist at large among the American population - just look at all the comments about Obama not being truly American, etc. This is what I mean by nativism.

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