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Thread: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    because government forced them all into the same flawed standard.
    That's just the standard blanket explanation for everything the right uses for everything- "if something is wrong, it must be the government's fault", that is not a real argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    in today's market, unless the business were very niche (say, mass producing klu klux klan hoodies), any business that attempted to put in a racist policy would be quickly destroyed.
    Again, if a white person and a black person apply for the same job with the same resume, the white person is 2.4 times more likely to get an interview. That means nearly half of businesses are discriminating on the basis of race, yet they haven't been destroyed. So, I guess your analysis must be missing something, right?

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Do you have proof of a specific business that purposely discriminates against blacks?

    j-mac
    Businesses lose lawsuits all the time for racial discrimination. I posted a link earlier of Abercrombie and Fitch who had to $50 million for racial discrimination. This is the second time I've been asked to prove that the sky is blue. That said, you're question has no bearing on what I said which is that the conservatives in this thread like use phrases like "wisely allocate resources" as euphemisms for "discriminate against blacks since we think they don't work as hard as whites".
    Last edited by ThePlayDrive; 09-04-11 at 11:00 AM.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    A good hard look at where you get your numbers to start would be refreshing. However, lets examine this on its face. Do you think that the percentage in population has any causality at all?

    In today's make up of race as a percentage of population blacks make up around 13% of the total population by race. So I'd say that your 2.4% number there is proof that affirmative action is working.

    You show me where in todays market place people don't have equal opportunity, and I'll stand with you, however, if what you want to do is equal the playing field through some sense of guilt for being born white, then I have no time for arguing handouts.
    The numbers come from a massive experiment conducted by Northwestern University and then repeated by Princeton and Brown Universities with oversight from Harvard and the National Science Foundation. So, yeah, it holds up to a good hard look extremely well. It's a very clever design and very well executed. Twice, with the same results both times. Here is the study.

    No, the percentages of the population are not related. It isn't that overall whites get 2.4 times more interviews. They send in white people and black people with the same resume and each individual white person gets 2.4 times more interviews than each individual black person over a sample of about 300 employers. Like at the end of the day, after applying for 300 entry level jobs the white applicants have an average of 102 interviews and the black applicants have an average of 42 interviews.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I can't truly, or honestly put myself in any of those positions, and say with any certainty. People are different, some rise to the challenge, some don't. I will tell you this though, no one gave me anything in my life, what I have accomplished, I had to earn.
    They gave you one thing- a fair shake. When you were the best candidate for a job, you got it. That's all black people are asking for.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    See this is where I believe that libs have it fundamentally wrong. When you elect a representative, they are supposed to go to DC and reflect the peoples voice that elected them. Not say to themselves "whew! I am in now baby! Time to do what I want.."
    I am not saying "hey, when politicians get elected they should do lots of stuff they didn't campaign on", I am saying that they can't help it. No matter what they campaign on votes are going to come up in the Congress on all issues and they will have to vote one way or the other. We can't just ignore how they will vote on every issue except taxes because 99% of the stuff they'll vote on won't be taxes.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    And I think that the left doesn't want to see racism die off because that is how they continue to get elected, especially in minority, or poor districts. IOW, the left keeps blacks in their respective positions in life for a vote.
    Honestly, man to man, on my honor, I swear to you that I absolutely want to see racism die off. In fact, if I had to choose between one scenario where racism was completely erased, but Republicans won every election in the nation for 40 years and another scenario where racism continued as is, but Democrats won every election in the nation for 40 years, truthfully I would opt for the first scenario over the later. In my view it is hands down the most serious cause of very real human suffering in this country.

    And, I also honestly believe that the issue hurts Democrats much more than it helps them. The majority of voters in the US are white. They don't want to hear about racism. I think we'd do better politically if we just followed the Republican model of telling everybody it doesn't exist anymore. But then if we can't work to fight what I view as the biggest problem in the country then what would be the point in winning elections?

    I hear this claim all the time that the left is using racism for political ends, and I honestly can tell you for a certainty that it isn't true. I know tons of Democrats, I've spent loads of times on political forums, I've worked for federal level elected representatives and I've worked on a campaign. I swear to you that in none of those situations have I ever gotten even a whiff of a Democrat being happy when a racism issue comes up. From our perspective it is more like we try to ignore it because we're as sick of it as anybody else, but when we feel that our values compel us to say something about it, we do even though it costs us. Seriously, that's how it seems from a perspective inside the left.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    because government forced them all into the same flawed standard. in today's market, unless the business were very niche (say, mass producing klu klux klan hoodies), any business that attempted to put in a racist policy would be quickly destroyed.
    The stupid uproar over the hair products ad or whatever it was with the guy getting rid of his afro shows that. It wasn't even in any way racist but yet, people yelled it and it was pulled.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Businesses lose lawsuits all the time for racial discrimination. I posted a link earlier of Abercrombie and Fitch who had to $50 million for racial discrimination. This is the second time I've been asked to prove that the sky is blue. That said, you're question has no bearing on what I said which is that the conservatives in this thread like use phrases like "wisely allocate resources" as euphemisms for "discriminate against blacks since we think they don't work as hard as whites".
    Yep, they were shown to have had a long standing policy of not hiring minorities and were fined $40 million.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    To me what you're saying just sounds like some jackass saying that as long as some women dress slutty we shouldn't do anything about rape... It's beyond sick.
    People are stereotyped. Sorry. It happens. You stereotype people, just like anyone else.



    Of course there are... Not sure what weight you think that has in our debate.
    Because you keep saying that racism is the only reason that blacks don't get as many job interviews as whites.



    Nobody is proposing sitting around boo-hooing anything... Not sure where you get that angle from. We're talking about whether or not our society should fight against discrimination or not. You are arguing that it should not.... Right?
    So far, the strategy used to fight discrimination hasn't worked for the whole of the black community.



    For about 10 years I ran the professional services departments in a couple different software companies. Then I got bored of that and went to law school a year ago.
    I'm thinking you don't have alotta contact with the brothers and can only form an opinion on a study done by a bunch of white hand wringers, whom are overcome with white guilt and feel obligated to come up with excuses as to why blacks are less successful than whites and the conclusion they keep coming back to is...it's whitey's fault.

    Let's revisit this subject when you have some more real world experience in the working class; and no, college isn't the real world.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    So you are the standard for 300 plus million people all over the nation? Amazing!!!!!
    I believe I'm closer to it than you are.

    What is it that you do for a living?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post

    I have to give it to the conservatives in this thread - you have all become VERY good at disguising your support of discrimination without actually saying the word discrimination.
    Yes, it is all "veiled" and "hidden" and "disguised".

    It never seems to occur to Leftists that a difference of opinion exists. Their imaginations, and education, are so limited and unimaginative that their only responses are that it must be "racism", "bigotry" or other ugly charges, and all without evidence or substantiation. This is how terribly simple the poor Left has become.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Because you keep saying that racism is the only reason that blacks don't get as many job interviews as whites.
    No, you aren't following. The study eliminated every variable except race to determine whether racism was having an impact. They found that it was. A big one. That doesn't mean it is the only factor.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    So far, the strategy used to fight discrimination hasn't worked for the whole of the black community.
    We've only given a very half assed attempt. Only one company has every been penalized under AA ever... Back in the first few years after the Civil Right Act when a government contractor refused to get rid of their formal policy of not hiring black people. That's it.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I'm thinking you don't have alotta contact with the brothers and can only form an opinion on a study done by a bunch of white hand wringers, whom are overcome with white guilt and feel obligated to come up with excuses as to why blacks are less successful than whites and the conclusion they keep coming back to is...it's whitey's fault.
    Uh, no. I lived in DC for 10 years. I was the assistant director of a program that worked with kids on probation there for 3 years...

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Let's revisit this subject when you have some more real world experience in the working class; and no, college isn't the real world.
    Uh, what? Re-read the block you replied to... I've worked for a total of about 18 years. 10 of it running entire departments at software companies. I've been on the committees for hiring about 150-200 people and I've personally hired about 50...

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    No, you aren't following. The study eliminated every variable except race to determine whether racism was having an impact. They found that it was. A big one. That doesn't mean it is the only factor.



    We've only given a very half assed attempt. Only one company has every been penalized under AA ever... Back in the first few years after the Civil Right Act when a government contractor refused to get rid of their formal policy of not hiring black people. That's it.



    Uh, no. I lived in DC for 10 years. I was the assistant director of a program that worked with kids on probation there for 3 years...



    Uh, what? Re-read the block you replied to... I've worked for a total of about 18 years. 10 of it running entire departments at software companies. I've been on the committees for hiring about 150-200 people and I've personally hired about 50...
    Sounds to me like the study was rigged to have the desired outcome.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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