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Thread: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Im starting to think some of you were dropped on your heads... latinos and blacks have had a headstart disadvantage in a largely white controlled society since its inception.
    I agree that Blacks were at a disadvantage but Latinos? How so? Latinos at one time controlled much of what is the USA and they still have Mexico , Central America and South America. How are they at a disadvantage?
    There is a structural bias against them to this day that cannot be readily explained.
    Of course it can't, and your statements verify that.
    Allowing that bias to continue is in itself a racist act
    What bias? Show where there is race based bias?
    and would continue deprivation of their communities.
    There are certainly problems in some Communities, Black, White and Latino, but that is more a cultural problem rather than anything race driven.
    Utopian rants that if everyone were just treated equal in a society where government didnt interfere are pretty much conceptual dookey.
    Nonsense. There have been many examples where people have gotten along despite racial differences.

    If older folks who are equally qualified as younger folks have trouble getting the tech jobs that they need, then the government should step in there too.
    So employers should hire incompetent people to meet government quotas? Do you have any idea yet why businesses are moving out of the United States?
    So we were racist 45 years ago, that can't affect us today! sure
    Are you still a racist after 45 years? Are those still the conditions in your State?

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    So every employer that doesnt hire as many blacks as whites to the ratio of their applicants according to their elegibility should be sued. Quite a ballsy undertaking. Something tells me we are where we are today because that is unfeasable towards the goal of getting minorities hired as equally as whites.
    And somehow creating racist organizations are? Now yes, why do we create laws if we have absolutely no intention of enforceing them? (I'm just argueing this, we do enforce them).

    Do you not have to enforce these other "solutions"? Why would you not support legally enforcing our laws? Or is it really not about racism?

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    But not with the same unmeasured variables WHICH THE RESEARCHERS NOTED.
    Nothing that has anything to do with anything. As I've explained.

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    The data shows that there is no discrimination. That pay gap is a reflection of the different levels of mean IQ. When you control for IQ then the pay gap disappears.
    We've been over this several times. If it is true, as you claim, that there is no discrimination for wages within a position, that doesn't mean there is no discrimination. There can still be plenty of discrimination in hiring, layoffs, what types of jobs people get, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    When you employ your revisionist tactics then you should expect pushback.

    Murder Rates per 100,000 population:

    White Male (1997) = 6.7
    Black Male (1997) = 47.1
    We were talking about overall crime, not just murder, and we were talking about the percentages of crimes committed by each race, not per capita. I'm not revising anything. Certainly black people commit more violent crime per capita. Doesn't mean it is realistic to depict it as though they commit anywhere near 80% of all crimes, since that would be obviously ridiculously white supremacist.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Agreed, but we're a LOOONG way from helping black people out.
    Because they are unable to help themselves?

    At present if a white applicant and a black applicant apply for the same job with the same resume- so that is the case of the black person who has overcome all disadvantages through hard work and has arrived at a point where they are exactly equally qualified for a job as the white applicant- the white applicant still gets the interview 2.4 times as often.

    Today by and large one is not able to tell the race of an applicant until they get an interview.

    Despite that- despite the fact that we are continuing to discriminate against blacks to a massive extent-
    Total bull****.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Because they are unable to help themselves?
    White people hold the vast majority of management or hiring positions, so just blurting out that they should fix it themselves is just a half assed attempt to distract from the issue. Blaming the victim is cute and all, but not relevant to what we're talking about and certainly no excuse for continued discrimination.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Today by and large one is not able to tell the race of an applicant until they get an interview.
    That's why the study looked at low income jobs. They're jobs where you drop off the resume in person. Other studies have found similar things in other types of job markets, but IMO this is the best one since they are using exactly the same resume.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Total bull****.
    The assertion of a right winger just doesn't suffice to counter scientific evidence collected by some of the most respected institutions in the world. If you have evidence, please present it.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    If you have evidence, please present it.
    He's likely seen how you deal with disconfirming evidence.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    White people hold the vast majority of management or hiring positions, so just blurting out that they should fix it themselves is just a half assed attempt to distract from the issue. Blaming the victim is cute and all, but not relevant to what we're talking about and certainly no excuse for continued discrimination.
    I'm not blaming the victim. I'm saying that nobody needs your help to improve themselves.

    That's why the study looked at low income jobs. They're jobs where you drop off the resume in person. Other studies have found similar things in other types of job markets, but IMO this is the best one since they are using exactly the same resume.
    Wal-Mart, Lowes, Harbor Freight, K-Mart, Autozone, those are the low paying jobs off the top of my head within 15 minutes of me that take their applications online.

    The assertion of a right winger just doesn't suffice to counter scientific evidence collected by some of the most respected institutions in the world. If you have evidence, please present it.
    You presented no evidence that there is massive discrimination.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Blaming the victim is cute and all, but not relevant to what we're talking about and certainly no excuse for continued discrimination.
    There is no victim. There is a control group which we can use to test the hypothesis that skin color is the factor which is responsible for differing outcomes. Immigrants from Africa are black, in fact many are blacker than African Americans. How are they doing?


    Overall, Africans immigrants performed better than the rest of the U.S. population in education and employment, the report shows. For instance, the rate of Africans with an undergraduate degree and above was 43 percent, compared to 24 percent among general U.S. population.

    The average annual personal income of African immigrants was about $26,000, nearly $2,000 higher than that of American-born workers.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I'm not blaming the victim. I'm saying that nobody needs your help to improve themselves.
    It doesn't have much to do with improving oneself. Blacks who are equally qualified to whites are the ones we're talking about. People who have already improved themselves and are still facing overwhelming discrimination.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Wal-Mart, Lowes, Harbor Freight, K-Mart, Autozone, those are the low paying jobs off the top of my head within 15 minutes of me that take their applications online.
    Not sure what your point is. The study looked at jobs where you drop the resume off in person. Obviously at K-Mart or wherever, they see what race you are when they interview you, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    You presented no evidence that there is massive discrimination.
    Again, if a white person and a black person apply for the same job with the same resume, the white applicant is 2.4 times more likely to get an interview. Think about that. Imagine that 3/5 of the jobs you've gotten in your life you didn't get. Where would you be today? On welfare? A criminal? That is MASSIVE discrimination. Almost incomprehensibly massive. And it comes from an ultra credible study. It was done first by Northwestern University, then repeated by an entirely different group in a different city with the same results. The second time it was conducted by Princeton and Brown universities with Harvard and the National Science Foundation providing support. I frankly can't imagine what could possibly be more credible proof.

    But, again, if you think you have superior evidence, lets see it. But if you have nothing, then maybe you need to rethink your assumptions.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    There is no victim. There is a control group which we can use to test the hypothesis that skin color is the factor which is responsible for differing outcomes.
    What the hell are you talking about? Of course there are victims. Families that don't have enough to eat. Kids who have to drop out of school to work to support their siblings. Lives destroyed. The average black household has less than 7% as much wealth as the average white household. No victims? What the hell are you talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Immigrants from Africa are black, in fact many are blacker than African Americans. How are they doing?
    No really a huge shocker. The vast majority of people we let into the US from Africa get in either on employer visas or through demonstrating that they have valuable skills. No shocker a sample that is hand picked beats a random sample.

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