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Thread: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Thank you captain obvious

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Why would equality of outcome be anyone's goal when they realize that to achieve this goal they're going to have to sacrifice all of their freedom to a government which can impose equal outcomes on everyone?
    First off, I'm not really talking about equality of outcome, I'm talking about equality of opportunity. Right now, equally qualified black applicants get far fewer interviews. That means unequal opportunity. Equalizing that would be equalizing the opportunity, not the outcomes.

    But, regardless, you are, again, thinking in binary mode. You really need to watch out for that. You seem like a bright guy, but that keeps hanging you up. Why would you leap to the assumption that the only options are either a totalitarian government ensuring absolutely equal economic outcomes or absolutely no efforts to equalize outcomes? Either of those options would be totally insane... No society has ever survived at either of those extremes. That is what I mean by binary thinking. You need to think in terms of degrees, not absolutes.

    As a side note though, economic freedom isn't the only kind of freedom. You could theoretically have forcibly equalized economic outcomes and still have other kinds of freedom. I'm not advocating that, just saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    If both John and Jane have the same equality of opportunity to get as many carrots as they like, which they do, then there is no problem.
    They don't. Black people get less interviews with the same resumes, so that's less opportunity.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    That is funny. So the democrats in 1964 that were in office are now republicans in office? Gee...
    No, don't be stupid. The south, which was predominantly democratic, has over the years become predominantly republican. And it was primarily southern legislators who opposed the civil rights act. Ergo....

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The vote was on North/South lines -- not party lines. But it was Johnson's pro-civil-rights stand, and Goldwater's anti-civil-rights stand that pushed the Southern Democrats into the Republican party.
    Certainly it was along party lines, unless you're making the excuse that the Democrats were racist in the South and their votes should count for less.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Well, of course it could. Think it through. Lets take a simpler example. Say that John has 10 carrots and Jane has 4. Your goal is for both of them to have the same number of carrots and you have 6 carrots. Who would you give them to if your goal was for them each to have the same number of carrots?
    Are you making the claim that everyone now has the same number of carrots, or that the carrot quota is coming ever closer?

    And what is the rationale behind John having to give his carrots to Jane or me?

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    A lot of them were, and now they're republicans.
    A majority of Democrats in the South were racists, that's true, but many changed their racist ways and became Republicans. That's why they call it the New South.

    But the complete eradication of racism in the Democratic Party is a difficult chore, especially when they control much of the major media.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    A majority of Democrats in the South were racists, that's true, but many changed their racist ways and became Republicans. That's why they call it the New South.

    But the complete eradication of racism in the Democratic Party is a difficult chore, especially when they control much of the major media.
    actually they only changed their parties
    unfortunately, not their ways
    as examples of this, see jesse helms and strom thurmond
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    First off, I'm not really talking about equality of outcome, I'm talking about equality of opportunity. Right now, equally qualified black applicants get far fewer interviews. That means unequal opportunity. Equalizing that would be equalizing the opportunity, not the outcomes.
    As I pointed out in my remarks on the study that you referenced, employers don't have perfect information when they are reviewing resumes. There is a widely held perception amongst employers, acknowledged by the researchers, that Latinos are harder working, more pliable and more reliable than blacks. These are all employee attributes which translate into less cost/greater profit for an employer. Bringing on a new employee is a costly endeavor for employers and if the employee doesn't work out, then the employer is back at square one looking for his replacement but now marginally poorer because of the cost of bringing an employee up to speed and that employee not working out.

    To the extent that the stereotypes are true the employer benefits by gambling on probabilities and rationally discriminating and hiring the Latino worker because that worker has greater odds of being a reliable, pliable and hard working employee. This means that the employer has less risk of making an error with employee choice.

    Is that fair to the individual black person. No, absolutely not. Is it fair to force employers to ignore evidence which can help them make smart hiring decisions and thus save them money? No, absolutely not.

    The problem here is that employers have access to valuable information via stereotypes. Invalidate the stereotype and then there is no value in that stereotype.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    I come back to this discussion and once again it's fallen back into who was more racist 45 years ago as opposed to why we should still allow racist government organizations exist today.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    If you believe the Civil Rights bill of 1964 is the proof that you aren't racist(which it actually means nothing to the topic) the numbers still show democrats were racist.



    Sorry, but my point holds true.
    I am not arguing that Democrats(in the South) weren't racist, clearly they were. But you can't compare the parties back then, to the parties now. It was JFK's dream that civil right legislation be passed during his presidency. It took a strong LBJ to get JFK dream to fruition after JFK was assassinated.

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