Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

theplaydrive said:

Again, you're logic fails again. This is getting embarrassing RD, I think you need to take a break. The argument is not that black marriages are more unhappy, the argument is that forcing people who don't want to be married to each other to get married is a recipe for disaster.

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The argument that you have in your mind has to match the argument that you type into the reply box. Just trying to help you out there.

Why are you arguing that you'd have to force more blacks to stay married than couples in other races?

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

theplaydrive said:

You're posts are getting more and more illogical and laughable by the minute. I think it's time to step away from debate politics and return to Stormfront.

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I strongly disagree Playdrive. The quality and content of the posts of RiverDad have not deteriorated one iota over he span he has been here. Some things are simply not possible.

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RiverDad said:

The argument that you have in your mind has to match the argument that you type into the reply box. Just trying to help you out there.

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No, RD you're just seriously misinterpreting things and looking for things that aren't there.

Why are you arguing that you'd have to force more blacks to stay married than couples in other races?

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Did you even read the post I was responding to? Blacks have a lower rate of marriage than whites which is what cpwill was referring to and my point was that forcing people to get married doesn't help anything.

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

teamosil said:

Yeah. Everybody has got some excuse why it isn't their problem. Homeless people have all these rationalizations about the system keeping them down, Republicans have all these rationalizations about "personal responsibility"... End result, nobody does anything to fix it.

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Do what you can do...and then work to influence those within your sphere and stop bitching and whining about how its the other guys fault. AMAZING the results you can see.

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

theplaydrive said:

Did you even read the post I was responding to? Blacks have a lower rate of marriage than whites which is what cpwill was referring to and my point was that forcing people to get married doesn't help anything.

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I know what his point was and I know what your point was meant to be. Your answer didn't address his point though.

There is social dysfunction in the black community regarding marriage. If more blacks got, and stayed, married and simply matched the rates seen in other communities, then a lot of the poverty and other social dysfunction would diminish. The burning questions are why there is a presumption that having blacks stay (get) married at the same rate as white would entail those marriages being characterized by hatred between the spouses and why the only way to achieve marital parity would be to force blacks to stay (get) in marriages that they want to flee.

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Mason66 said:

Please go back and look at what he actually said, and not what he said after the fact to back track on what he said originally.

He talked about Republican legislators that wanted to string up black people. Whoa re they exactly.

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I have! I watched the video as aired on FoxNews just moments ago and Congressman Carson specifically said, "some of them in Congress right now of this Tea Party movement...". He did not say the entire Tea Party. But you can see the video yourself linked herein. They even placed Congressman Carson's words directly on the screen. So, unless you are illiterate there's no way anyone can misinterpret his words.

Here's something to think about concerning the Tea Party and this issue of racist elements within the movement. We've seen the images of racist banners at protests. We've also heard where the movement's founders have said they've gotten rid of those who espouse racism. What people wrongly interpret that to mean is "the Tea Party has gotten rid of every racist within the movement", but the truth is they've only denied new membership of those fringe organizations that wish to become part of the movement. That does not apply to members of Congress.

Curious...if the Tea Party isn't made up of just Republicans and are a "movement" of itself, why are Republican's getting so upset? After all, aren't there suppose to be some liberals among them?

theplaydrive said:

1. He was referring to Tea Party congress members not just Republicans in Congress. Exact quote: "some of them in Congress right now of this tea party movement would love to see you and me ... hanging on a tree.”

Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' - Jake Sherman - POLITICO.com

2. How can someone prove or disprove such racism? Do you really think all racists, particularly those who want to be elected, openly state there racism? There could be several members of Congress who hold these ideas, Rep or Dem. Asking someone to prove it is just foolish.

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no it's not. if he's going to throw out the accusation, he needs evidence.

there are 60 Republicans in the Tea Party Caucus:

Sandy Adams, Florida
Robert Aderholt, Alabama
Todd Akin, Missouri
Rodney Alexander, Louisiana
Michele Bachmann, Minnesota, Chair
Roscoe Bartlett, Maryland
Joe Barton, Texas
Gus Bilirakis, Florida
Rob Bishop, Utah
Diane Black, Tennessee
Michael C. Burgess, Texas
Paul Broun, Georgia
Dan Burton, Indiana
John Carter, Texas
Bill Cassidy, Louisiana
Howard Coble, North Carolina
Mike Coffman, Colorado
Chip Cravaack, Minnesota
Ander Crenshaw, Florida
John Culberson, Texas
Jeff Duncan, South Carolina
Blake Farenthold, Texas
Stephen Fincher, Tennessee
John Fleming, Louisiana
Trent Franks, Arizona
Phil Gingrey, Georgia
Louie Gohmert, Texas
Vicky Hartzler, Missouri
Wally Herger, California
Tim Huelskamp, Kansas
Lynn Jenkins, Kansas
Steve King, Iowa
Doug Lamborn, Colorado
Jeff Landry, Louisiana
Blaine Luetkemeyer, Missouri
Kenny Marchant, Texas
Tom McClintock, California
David McKinley, West Virginia
Gary Miller, California
Mick Mulvaney, South Carolina
Randy Neugebauer, Texas
Rich Nugent, Florida
Steve Pearce, New Mexico
Mike Pence, Indiana
Ted Poe, Texas
Tom Price, Georgia
Denny Rehberg, Montana
Phil Roe, Tennessee
Dennis Ross, Florida
Ed Royce, California
Steve Scalise, Louisiana
Tim Scott, South Carolina
Pete Sessions, Texas
Adrian Smith, Nebraska
Lamar Smith, Texas
Cliff Stearns, Florida
Tim Walberg, Michigan
Joe Walsh, Illinois
Allen West, Florida
Lynn Westmoreland, Georgia
Joe Wilson, South Carolina

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I want to know which ones above wish to see lynchings come back, and I would like to see the evidence presented therein.




Mind you, no one will be able to do it. Because there isn't any. Because such a thing would be a massive scandal, and the Republican Party would kick them out.


And, in fact, Representative Carson is just spewing vile vitriol out of his a$$. I guess liberals got so used to spewing this kind of crap against George Bush they assumed they could do it to the Tea Partiers without ever getting called out on it.


Well, Carson, let me introduce you to Tea Party Member Representative West. You may find him a little less.... pacifist.

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

RiverDad said:

Let's delve a little deeper into how you see life in Black America. Share with us exactly why you think blacks in marriages hate each other more than other couples from other races hate each other in their marriages.

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Self evident... theyre no longer together.

That was retarded.

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

bah.... edit

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

theplaydrive said:

Did you even read the post I was responding to? Blacks have a lower rate of marriage than whites which is what cpwill was referring to and my point was that forcing people to get married doesn't help anything.

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when did i suggest force?

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

cpwill said:

when did i suggest force?

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Rdads posts seemed to imply it somehow.

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

SE102 said:

Rdads posts seemed to imply it somehow.

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Yeah, blame me for something that occurred before I contributed to that conversation. Nice try.

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

RiverDad said:

Yeah, blame me for something that occurred before I contributed to that conversation. Nice try.

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Innocent mistake... I was totally trying to turn the whole forum against you.

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SE102 said:

Innocent mistake... I was totally trying to turn the whole forum against you.

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Oh, in that case, sorry for interrupting your efforts. Carry on.

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

RiverDad said:

Oh, in that case, sorry for interrupting your efforts. Carry on.

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I may have to link some things you say and put them in a little folder... and divulge them to...
anyone who doesnt know what youre doing on the internet.

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

RiverDad said:

Let's delve a little deeper into how you see life in Black America. Share with us exactly why you think blacks in marriages hate each other more than other couples from other races hate each other in their marriages.

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It's a real problem. It does no good to just try and brush it aside. To think the problems lie only with employers will not solve anything.

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

Objective Voice said:

I have! I watched the video as aired on FoxNews just moments ago and Congressman Carson specifically said, "some of them in Congress right now of this Tea Party movement...". He did not say the entire Tea Party. But you can see the video yourself linked herein. They even placed Congressman Carson's words directly on the screen. So, unless you are illiterate there's no way anyone can misinterpret his words.

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To try and parse his words is cowardly IMO. They were wrong and hateful no matter who they were directed at.

Curious...if the Tea Party isn't made up of just Republicans and are a "movement" of itself, why are Republican's getting so upset? After all, aren't there suppose to be some liberals among them?

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It's because they are tired of the double standard.

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

Moderator's Warning:

Let's all stay on topic plz.

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

1Perry said:

To try and parse his words is cowardly IMO. They were wrong and hateful no matter who they were directed at.

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Now, you're just being disingenuous. No one parsed Rep. Carson's words. If you watched the video clip, you heard exactly what I heard, read exactly what I read because the man's words were displayed right on the screen as he uttered them. There was no parsing; no bleeping out certain words other than an "inaudibable" word that came long before Rep. Carson's rant against certain unnamed members of the Tea Party and one line FoxNews omitted. However, you could still hear the man speaking. Those two edits and one omission occurred on the first screen shot. The words Rep. Carson spoke that has caused such a ruckus were displayed on the second screen. If you still doubt, go back and watch the video. If you still deny his words were parsed or that he didn't include the entire Tea Party movement in his commentary, then I really don't know what to say to you except you simply refuse to accept the truth.

It's because they are tired of the double standard.

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What double standard?

Look, I openly admit there are Blacks within the Republican Party, as well as, within the Tea Party. We've seen them - folks like Allen West and Herman Cane are two such examples. I'm sure there are others. Those who have studied politics let alone U.S. history should know that it was the Republic party who freed the slaves and first gave Blacks the right to vote. But somewhere along the way the Republican party became a party of separatist moreso than the Democrat party which few people acknowledge was the party that started the Klan. Why do you think they use to call some southern Democrats "Dixicrats"? President Andrew Jackson, who was a Democrat, opposed freeing the slaves. So, there were people in high positions of power among the Democrat party who did not want to see Blacks with the freedoms we all now share. But again, somewhere along the line for a time, the Republican party stopped being inclusives and took a more separatist stance on issues of race. No time illustrated that populist mentality more than the Civil Rights era. But that's starting to turn around again.

Still, to put things even more in focus, there are still some elements of racism within the Republican party. It was fully on display during the run-up to the 2008 presidential election and we've seen it at times throughout President Obama's tenure. Such behavior is still on display today. Who do you think was the first to bring up the Rev. Wright "God Damn America" video? Was it a Democrats? The only Democrat who stood a chance to gain anything from having that video go public was Hillary Clinton. Did she plant it?

What about the Shirly Sherrod NAACP video? It first aired on FoxNews, not CNN or MSNBC nor MediaMatters. FoxNews admitted they got the video from Mr. Brightbart who we all know is a member of the Tea Party movement. And we also know that Mrs. Sherrod's words from the NAACP conference were taken out of context. Yet, the seeds of racism had been planted by an agent of the Right - two if you count FoxNews as such (I certainly do because as most people acknowledge FoxNews is a Right-leaning media outlet same as MSNBC is a Left-leaning media outlet.)

Now, here's a shocker...there have been Black presidential candidates long before the Rev. Jesse Jackson. The first was Clennon King in 1960; the first Black female, Charlene Mitchell. But the first to run and actully win the primary nomination of a major political party (Democrat) was Shirley Chisholm. The first Black Republican to ever be placed on the ballot for the presidency was also a female, Margaret Chase Smith. She lost to Barry Goldwater.

This and other "Black American firsts" can be found here. So, where President Obama is concerned, he wasn't the first Black presidential candidate to win a major party primary nomination. He was just the first most Black (and White) people believed could actually stand a chance to win! So, of course, millions of African Americans threw their support behind him. As the comedian, Chris Rock, has said, "Barack was Black and qualified". What I find crazy about this whole "Blacks voted for one of their own kind" argument is that African Americans have been voting for White presidents since they first were given the right to vote. But suddenly when a viable Black presidential candiate burst upon the sceen and takes the country by storm suddenly we're all racist because we put the power of our vote to work for one of our own? What does that say about the millions of White people who have voted for nothing but White presidential hopefuls throughout this country's history? Sounds rather idiotic doesn't it considering there weren't a whole lot of candidates from other races to choose from, doesn't it? But then again, it was White America who took issue with electing a Roman-Catholic to the White House in the 60's.

My point to all this is there are racist elements in both parties, some perhaps more obvious than others. I try to ignore it, try not to get so caught up in it, but some people make it very difficult to remain above the fray because every time someone tries to have an open and honest dialog about race in America the topic gets thrown completely off track. Look at how this thread suddenly went from being about the validity of Rep. Carson's comments to cultural issues within the Black race? What does marital statistics among African Americans have to do with anything Rep. Carson said? Why is it so difficult for people to admit they've overracted when the evidence of the man's words are put right before them to read for themselves? Why is it considered misleading when the President points out an obvious political strategy that he knows full well will be levied against him? Why was it wrong for the future First Lady to openly say, "Black Americans traditionally stay away from the voting booths during Presidential elections" considering their numbers were low in the Democratic presidential primaries. Thus, all she was saying was when asked of the matter was "hopefully, African Americans will wake up and get out there and put the power of their collective vote behind a viable Black candidate who happened to be her husband?" Why was that so wrong in light of history among African Americans as a voting block?

If we're going to truly talk about the racial divide can we atleast acknowledge the history behind it and try to place events of today in their proper context?

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

Objective Voice said:

Now, you're just being disingenuous. No one parsed Rep. Carson's words. If you watched the video clip, you heard exactly what I heard, read exactly what I read because the man's words were displayed right on the screen as he uttered them. There was no parsing; no bleeping out certain words other than an "inaudibable" word that came long before Rep. Carson's rant against certain unnamed members of the Tea Party and one line FoxNews omitted. However, you could still hear the man speaking. Those two edits and one omission occurred on the first screen shot. The words Rep. Carson spoke that has caused such a ruckus were displayed on the second screen. If you still doubt, go back and watch the video. If you still deny his words were parsed or that he didn't include the entire Tea Party movement in his commentary, then I really don't know what to say to you except you simply refuse to accept the truth.

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They were wrong and hateful, period. There is nothing else to discuss.

Look, I openly admit there are Blacks within the Republican Party, as well as, within the Tea Party. We've seen them - folks like Allen West and Herman Cane are two such examples. I'm sure there are others. Those who have studied politics let alone U.S. history should know that it was the Republic party who freed the slaves and first gave Blacks the right to vote. But somewhere along the way the Republican party became a party of separatist moreso than the Democrat party which few people acknowledge was the party that started the Klan.

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Sorry, Klan members were largely (D's). Argue all you want that the (D)'s in the klan switched sides later but this claim is absolutely wrong. Byrd was a (D) then just as he was when he died.

Why do you think they use to call some southern Democrats "Dixicrats"? President Andrew Jackson, who was a Democrat, opposed freeing the slaves. So, there were people in high positions of power among the Democrat party who did not want to see Blacks with the freedoms we all now share. But again, somewhere along the line for a time, the Republican party stopped being inclusives and took a more separatist stance on issues of race. No time illustrated that populist mentality more than the Civil Rights era. But that's starting to turn around again.

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What if they did? How does what happened 50 years ago justify these hateful words today?

Still, to put things even more in focus, there are still some elements of racism within the Republican party. It was fully on display during the run-up to the 2008 presidential election and we've seen it at times throughout President Obama's tenure. Such behavior is still on display today. Who do you think was the first to bring up the Rev. Wright "God Damn America" video? Was it a Democrats? The only Democrat who stood a chance to gain anything from having that video go public was Hillary Clinton. Did she plant it?

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I see, because Rev Wright was black it should have been off limits. It was a very valid point.

What about the Shirly Sherrod NAACP video? It first aired on FoxNews, not CNN or MSNBC nor MediaMatters. FoxNews admitted they got the video from Mr. Brightbart who owe all know is a member of the Tea Party movement. And we also know that her words from the NAACP conference were taken out of context. Yet, the seeds of racism had been planted by an agent of the Right - two if you count FoxNews as such (I certainly do because as most people acknowledge FoxNews is a Right-leaning media outlet same as MSNBC is a Left-leaning media outlet.)

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Breitbart has been around for years. Things are taken out of context in politics. It's never a good tactic but it's commonly done. It's always wrong no matter who does it.

Now, here's a shocker...there have been Black presidential candidates long before the Rev. Jesse Jackson. The first was Clennon King in 1960; the first Black female, Charlene Mitchell. But the first to run and actully win the primary nomination of a major political party (Democrat) was Shirley Chisholm. The first Black Republican to ever be placed on the ballot for the presidency was also a female, Margaret Chase Smith. She lost to Barry Goldwater.

This and other "Black American firsts" can be found here. So, where President Obama is concerned, he wasn't the first Black presidential candidate to win a major party primary nomination. He was just the first most Black (and White) people believed could actually stand a chance to win! So, of course, millions of African Americans threw their support behind him. As the comedian, Chris Rock, has said, "Barack was Black and qualified". What I found crazy about this whole "Blacks voted for one of their own kind" argument is that African Americans have been voting for White presidents since they first were given the right to vote. But suddenly when a viable Black presidential candiate burst upon the sceen and takes the country by storm suddenly we're all racist because we put the power of our vote to work for one of our own? What does that say about the millions of White people who have voted for nothing but White presidential hopefuls throughout this country's history? Sounds rather idiotic doesn't it considering there weren't a whole lot of candidates from other races to choose from, doesn't it? But then again, it was White America who took issue with electing a Roman-Catholic to the White House in the 60's.

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I never had a problem, not did I express one for blacks voting for Obama for this reason. Chris Rock was wrong though, he wasn't qualified. I wouldn't qualify what happened here as racism. People were voting for the guy they felt was most like them. It would have only been racism if they would refuse to vote for someone of another race with the same positions. If Obama hadn't run, most of those who voted for Obama would have voted for Hillary.

My point to all this is there are racist elements in both parties, some perhaps more obvious than others. I try to ignore it, try not to get so caught up in it, but some people make it very difficult to remain above the fray because every time someone tries to have an open and honest dialog about race in America the topic gets thrown completely off track. Look at how this thread suddenly went from being honest about Rep. Carson's comments to cultural issues within the Black race? What does marital statistics among African Americans have to do with anything Rep. Carson said? Why is it so difficult for people to admit they've overracted when the evidence of the man's words are put right before them to read for themselves? Why is it considered misleading when the President points out an obvious political strategy that he knows full well will be levied against him? Why was it wrong for the future First Lady to openly say, "Black Americans traditionally stay away from the voting booths during Presidential elections considering their numbers were low in the Democratic presidential primaries. Thus, all she was saying was when asked of the matter was "hopefully, African Americans will wake up and get out there and put the power of the collective vote behind a viable Black candidate who happened to be her husband?" Why was that so wrong in light of history among African Americans as a voting block?

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No way was the reaction an overreaction. As a U.S. Senator you do not falsely accuse anyone of wanting to lynch blacks. You simply do not do that. He's just pissed that people disagree with him and he's lashing out by indefensible means. Yet, some (including yourself) seem to want to try and excuse it.

If we're going to truly talk about the racial divide can we atleast acknowledge the history behind it and try to place events of today in their proper context?

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There has been racism. There are still far smaller elements. That is no excuse for what he said here. It's no excuse for instittutionalized racist organizations being a part of of our government.

There is no excuse for racism from anyone. Why is that so hard to accept?

RiverDad said:

But look closely at these exemplars and a curious fact emerges. If you take away the dominant Tier One cities like New York, Chicago and Los Angeles you will find that the “progressive” cities aren’t red or blue, but another color entirely: white.

In fact, not one of these “progressive” cities even reaches the national average for African American percentage population in its core county. Perhaps not progressiveness but whiteness is the defining characteristic of the group.

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Why did they artificially exclude "tier one" cities from one side, but not the other? They compare Austin to the tier one cities of Dallas and Houston (4th and 5th largest metro areas in the nation) when Austin is far more comparable to San Antonio population wise (Austin has the 25th largest metro area, while San Antonio is 27th.).

To me, there is clear cut data manipulation going on based on an attempt to get the data they desire.

Source used for metro area sizes: http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/...evPageID=1&cpipage=2&CPISortType=&CPIorderBy=

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1Perry said:

Sorry, Klan members were largely (D's). Argue all you want that the (D)'s in the klan switched sides later but this claim is absolutely wrong. Byrd was a (D) then just as he was when he died.

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Actually that claim is spot on. The South - Klan stronghold - used to be primarily Democrat and now it's primarily Republican. It's true that certain politicians stayed in the party but the staunch racist constituency moved to the Republican Party during the Civil Rights movement because it felt that civil rights was a states' rights issue. To be fair to both parties though, racism was more of a North/South issue for both parties.

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theplaydrive said:

Actually that claim is spot on. The South - Klan stronghold - used to be primarily Democrat and now it's primarily Republican. It's true that certain politicians stayed in the party but the staunch racist constituency moved to the Republican Party during the Civil Rights movement because it felt that civil rights was a states' rights issue. To be fair to both parties though, racism was more of a North/South issue for both parties.

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I can't pick a fight there.

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cpwill said:

when did i suggest force?

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The only way to get people who don't want to be married to each other to get married is force unless you're arguing for huge structural changes in the black community, but then that goes far beyond marriage making conditions other than marriage the focus of your argument.