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Thread: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

  1. #181
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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    [QUOTE=RiverDad;1059769096]Wrong conclusion. This is class discrimination against a small cross-section of the black community, not race discrimination. Look at all of the names that the researchers assigned to blacks. Let's call them ghetto names. Look at all of the names the researchers assigned to whites. Let's call them middle class names./QUOTE]

    Not sure what you're talking about kiddo. The resumes had the same names for both races.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    The part in bold is known to be a false claim because we know that you do argue for genes alone creating the variation between races because you claim that evolution causes the variance seen between races.
    When I write "No one argues for genes alone" then that includes me. It makes absolutely no sense to write that if I had meant "No one but me argues for genes alone." You have my own words on the issue and all of my arguments support my statement but no, you know better than I what I am arguing. Give it a rest, clown. Here's what's going on, and if you honestly reflect on what's happening you'll see it. Psychologists know that people have a tendency to arrive at conclusions first and then seek out rationalization for their positions, rather than having their positions shaped by data. You want to categorize me as a racist but the evidence just isn't there to support that conclusion so what you're doing is shaping and twisting my statements, my arguments, and even perhaps your perceptions of those statements and arguments so that they align with the conclusion that you so desperately want and need to be true.

    While you might not actually understand what that means, when evolution is cited as the causal factor for variance it means that the only role that environment plays in the variance is in determining the genetic differences between races which, in turn, leads to the variance.
    The nature of the debate is to push back against the extremists who claim environment alone accounts for all variance. When I advance the hereditarian hypothesis I don't claim that there is some error in the data and that the heritability of intelligence should be 1.0 instead of the 0.6-08. This is an acknowledgement of environment. When I push back against specific environmental factors it is to diminish their effect size to levels supported by evidence and thus quash the environment alone extremist position, for as all of their favored factors are diminished in influence, it becomes impossible for them to weave together a plausible hypothesis to explain all variance.

    You clearly stated that the very thing that determines race is also the thing that causes the racial variance in IQs.
    There is "no very thing" that determines race, so that being the case, the same "very thing" cannot cause racial variance in intelligence. Race is determined by the correlational structure of alleles found within the genome.

    So all of your statements that that I "clearly stated that the very thing that determines race . . ." are really products of your faulty understanding of what I've written. I've never "very clearly" referred to "the very thing" that "determines" race. You have a very lay understanding of the genetic structure of race and that's ok but when you try to use that lay understanding of human biology to argue that you know better than I WHAT I WROTE AND WHAT I MEANT TO CONVEY AND WHAT I DID CONVEY then your lay understanding of human biology is leading you to false understanding.

    Most of these are false analogies because what you are doing is ranking groups of people, not individuals. Individuals won't be similar across a multitude of characteristics that have clear inferior and superior classifications the same way that groups will. Comparing Bill to Tom directly will have many more differences between variables than comparing all of the world's Bills to all of the world's Toms would.
    Show me an instance in my writing where I have taken a group level characteristic and applied it to an individual. Even with President Obama and his admission to Harvard Law my argument is that he was admitted under Affirmative Action and that is because he is not listed as having made Dean's List at Columbia University and his own acknowledgment of this in his writing. I have never argued that he is unintelligent because his father was Kenyan. His race doesn't tell me anything useful about him. However, if I have occasion to analyze the group dynamics/characteristics of 10,000 black men then I can rely on group-level evidence because my unit of analysis is now the group and no longer the individual.

    Apply your standard to quantum physics. No longer are you permitted to describe phenomena in probabilistic terms, you must speak with certainty about each individual atomic unit.

    Of course there is variance within a group. This is why the definition of racist rests so heavily on deterministic thinking, that is, a black man MUST have characteristic X BECAUSE he is black. When I write about variance within a group, this technically means what? You know statistics so I won't belabor the point - I speak carefully and precisely so as not to convey a deterministic meaning. There are black geniuses, there just are not as many as there are Jewish geniuses, because the two groups have different mean levels of intelligence. One of six African Americans in the US is as intelligent or more intelligent than half of the white population of America.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Not sure what you're talking about kiddo. The resumes had the same names for both races.
    That's entirely my error. I didn't click on your link and I assumed you were referring to the black names study. Sorry.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    This is so not shocking. We talked about the dem election playbook three months ago...its like they are reading this website. Class warfare and racism...what else are you going to run on?

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Tucker,

    Many of your concerns are valid and there is value in having them in the conversation. It never hurts to stress that it is impossible to take information from the general and apply it to the individual. My objection isn't to the content of your points, it's to your tactic of using me to leverage these points into the discussion. The points should stand alone. You don't need to mischaracterize what I've written in order to make your points. Time and time again you accuse me of writing something that I have not written and then you use that occasion to bring up a point you want to make. Just make the points on their own.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Well, you claim that a guy wearing a shirt that reads "Yup, I'm a racist... because the left says so" is actually a racist... no matter what point he is supposedly trying to make. So, what are we to make of your "OBAMA IS A N" post. Are we to excuse it based on context? You wouldn't, and you wrote that you expect us not to:





    As to the first: in the original discussion in the other thread I said that I had no doubt that the shirt had two distinct purposes
    1) to be able to proudly proclaim that the wearer is a racist thus pissing in the face of the progressives and laughing about it while doing it, and
    2) providing 'cover' with the lame ass back of the shirt which is designed to allow folks like other right wingers an excuse to pretend that it is something else altogether

    Is it actually making a point about perceptions of the left? I have no idea as I think that is merely convenient cover for a public expression of racism.

    As to your second point - really now - are you serious?
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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    And you found it chock full of angry racist out to restore white power in America didn't you?
    no. although there was a movement among liberals a while back to attend these things wearing racist tea shirts, holding racist signs, and shouting racist slogans in an alinskyite attempt to delegitimize the Tea Party.

    that's all this is. It's an angry two-year-old pounding his sippy cup on the seat tray and screaming because It's not Fair that the Tea Party is actually a) grassroots and b) successful.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    This is so not shocking. We talked about the dem election playbook three months ago...its like they are reading this website. Class warfare and racism...what else are you going to run on?
    black youth unemployment is hitting 50% in some areas, and black unemployment in general is at 17%. Democrats have to throw something at them, otherwise they won't come out and vote. apparently (unsurprisingly) that "something" is that they are the Last Line of Defense against the eeeeeevil Tea Pawty Wascally Wacists.
    Last edited by cpwill; 09-01-11 at 06:47 PM.

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    That's not a fact, it's an unsubstantiated opinion. What's funny is that a lot of Obama's black constituents think he has completely abandoned black issues, so your opinion is pretty ridiculous.
    Anytime you vote for someone because of their ethnicity, not because of their qualifications that make the best for the job, or when you consider their ethnicity to trump all other aspects, then it is racist. What would you call it if I said I was voting for Perry because he's white and Obama is black, and their other differences don't matter? Would you call that racist

    There are prejudiced Hispanics, but you saying that they are more so than ANY segment of the white population is silly. See white supremacist groups for more information.

    Racism between Black and Hispanic. However much exists between Black and White, the gulf between Hispanic and Black is far worse. The Hispanics won't vote for Obama in a large block, both because of their dislike and distrust of Blacks, and because they are repelled by Obama's racism as well.

    Racism that isn't well publicized

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    Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Racism between Black and Hispanic. However much exists between Black and White, the gulf between Hispanic and Black is far worse. The Hispanics won't vote for Obama in a large block, both because of their dislike and distrust of Blacks, and because they are repelled by Obama's racism as well.

    Racism that isn't well publicized
    Nice stereotyping.

    In fact Obama got 67% of the hispanic vote in '08 and I am quite sure he will get an even bigger percentage this time around, thanks to the waves of anti-immigrant xenophobic hate emanating from conservatives.

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