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Thread: DOJ Attempts to Scuttle AT&T's $39B T-Mobile Buy

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    Re: DOJ Attempts to Scuttle AT&T's $39B T-Mobile Buy

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Why do I need a legal reason to create more competition in the market? Thought you were a conservative and believed in the idea of competition.. guess not.
    The government has proven over and over and over (in fact nearly every time they try) again that government can't create competition through regulation and legislation. Most conservatives do believe in competition. If the liberals do, then why do they oppose de-regulating the health care industry to allow insurance companies to sell across state lines, thus bringing down the price of health care, among other things?

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    Re: DOJ Attempts to Scuttle AT&T's $39B T-Mobile Buy

    So, I am stealing this graph from SB in the other thread.web-at&t22[1].jpg
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    Re: DOJ Attempts to Scuttle AT&T's $39B T-Mobile Buy

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Akston View Post
    The government has proven over and over and over (in fact nearly every time they try) again that government can't create competition through regulation and legislation. Most conservatives do believe in competition. If the liberals do, then why do they oppose de-regulating the health care industry to allow insurance companies to sell across state lines, thus bringing down the price of health care, among other things?
    \]

    Is not health insurance a state regulatory area and not a federal one? Secondly can not health insurance companies set up subsidiaries in different states in order to sell health insurance in multiple states. Thirdly are there not multiple health insurance providers in nearly all states providing competition

    The government in this case is not creating competition but maintaining competition, T Moblie if bought by ATT would no longer be in competition with ATT, as such the current state of competition is being maintained
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    Re: DOJ Attempts to Scuttle AT&T's $39B T-Mobile Buy

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Why do I need a legal reason to create more competition in the market? Thought you were a conservative and believed in the idea of competition.. guess not.
    You need a legal reason to break up a company?
    Unless they engage in collusion, price fixing etc, illegal activity; government cant just stick its nose into a company.

    If they suck, they will get competition. Government shouldnt force market actions, the market will do that by itself.
    Im not against competition, I dont think its the government's place to dictate company and market actions.

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    Re: DOJ Attempts to Scuttle AT&T's $39B T-Mobile Buy

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Akston View Post
    The government has proven over and over and over (in fact nearly every time they try) again that government can't create competition through regulation and legislation. Most conservatives do believe in competition. If the liberals do, then why do they oppose de-regulating the health care industry to allow insurance companies to sell across state lines, thus bringing down the price of health care, among other things?
    You need to put in "the AMERICAN government" has proven... because in Europe we have our lower prices and better/faster internet because of government regulation that forces through more competition in a market. I fully understand your sceptism of "government", but it is not rational... government is not the problem.. your politicians and your political system is. Government is nothing but the administrative arm of your elected politicians who are in the pockets of big business and do not represent the people.

    Like it or not, the "market" is very bad in creating competition once the big players get a certain size. Collusion, cartels and what not, all move to raise the price of entry into said market all in the while the "big players" either set prices instead of market forces. There is no reason the big players to become competitive if there is very little possibility for external potential competitors to get access to the market.
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    Re: DOJ Attempts to Scuttle AT&T's $39B T-Mobile Buy

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    You need a legal reason to break up a company?
    Unless they engage in collusion, price fixing etc, illegal activity; government cant just stick its nose into a company.
    Of course they can. Government can do anything it wants. Point is they wont because the companies have government in their pockets. The US congress makes legislation and regulations on behalf of industries not on behalf of the consumer and competition... and in most cases it is the conservatives that are pushing for big business...

    If they suck, they will get competition.
    That is the point.. they wont if the market is skewed towards the big players..which the telecommunications market is. The cost of entry into the telecommunications market in the US is huge, which is why the big mobile telecommunications companies in the world would rather buy one of the big companies (Verizon is owned by Vodafone) than set up their own networks. This cost of entry is due to regulations and rules often put in place to protect the status quo instead of promoting competition. Some where in this thread someone stated that there was 180 mobile phone operators in the US.. considering the size of the US, that is very low... that is like 3ish per state. I have at least 10 providers here in Spain, that not only are regional but many cover the whole country.

    Government shouldnt force market actions, the market will do that by itself.
    While this is a good and pretty thing in a text book and theories and are based on the idea that there are many small competitors in a market and no big mega corporation. Now reality is a whole different ball of twine.. since most markets have one or two big companies and a bunch of small ones and that creates very little competition, especially if the big companies defacto work together on pricing and keeping new competition out of the markets. Like it or not, if the market is left on its own, there is trend towards becoming a monopoly and any method (including buying politicians to set the rules for you) will be used to gain this power base...

    Im not against competition, I dont think its the government's place to dictate company and market actions.
    Sorry to burst you bubble, but the "government" has been doing that for many decades when it comes to the US telecommunications market (and other markets). Regional monopolies, regulation that prevents competition and so on and so on. There is a reason most American's have so little choice when it comes to getting internet and it is industry friendly regulations and rules put in place by your politicians on behalf of the industry. If your politicians were the patriots and "men/women of the people" they claim they are, then they would force whole industries into more competition... telecommunications, news media, air lines, steel, medical and big pharma and so on.

    Regulation that promotes competition is good regulation.
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    Re: DOJ Attempts to Scuttle AT&T's $39B T-Mobile Buy

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Akston View Post
    If say GM and Ford merged, I'd see your point. But the problem lies in that there is plenty of competition in the cellular market. There are literally over 180 cellular providers in the US - source, so the angle the DOJ is taking in that it would create a monopoly simply doesn't fly in the face of the facts.

    AT&T is overpriced and they pretty much do suck. I know someone who works in one of their call centers, so I have knowledge of how they run. I'm currently a T-Mobile customer and I could care less either way to be honest.

    As for the 5,000 new jobs promise, I'm a little skeptical as well. There will be layoffs with a merger and how long would these 5,000 jobs remain in place? It is a shot at Obama and his administration and it will be used as campaign fodder for whoever his opponent ends up being. From my perspective, it looks more like the administration is siding with Verizon here more than anything. While both AT&T and Verizon have union employees, the Verizon employees have been on strike. I'm skeptical of the DOJ's angle here in addition to the promise to bring back 5,000 new jobs by AT&T.
    Forget Jobs.
    This isn't about Jobs. That's a teaser.
    It's Not about Bandwidth. There's plenty.
    It's about YOU T-Mobile customers who pay easily the lowest rates and have economical plans.

    AT&T is offering $39 Billion for a company that doesn't make money (!!), because eventually they will Make YOU pay much more.
    The deal makes No sense otherwise.
    Most in the biz community, many customers, and DOJ, know this is the Real reason.
    That's why they're blocking it.

    With Sprint on the ropes (but still not really discounting), and T-mob bought we Would be looking at a Two company Cartel; Verizon and AT&T.
    The rates are already Not competitive and don't have the low cost T-mobile plans.
    Last edited by mbig; 09-01-11 at 03:12 PM.
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    Re: DOJ Attempts to Scuttle AT&T's $39B T-Mobile Buy

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    AT&T is offering $39 Billion for a company that doesn't make money (!!),
    That might not be exactly true... since US tax law encourages non-US and multi-national US companies to make no money on paper in the US and get taxed on the profit in other countries, usually countries with very little tax rate.... just saying.
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    Re: DOJ Attempts to Scuttle AT&T's $39B T-Mobile Buy

    Of course they can. Government can do anything it wants.
    You see that statement as a solution, I see it as a problem and that is where we differ. Government should be restricted by laws just as much as a citizen or company.
    Government shouldnt simply do whatever it wants.

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    Re: DOJ Attempts to Scuttle AT&T's $39B T-Mobile Buy

    I think that even most people who are skeptical of government accept that one its legitimate functions is policing monopolies.

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