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Thread: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

  1. #871
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    In the middle.

    He's is a victim. He was shot to death while hiding in a shed. He's the victim of a crime.
    He was an armed drug addict thug-he was no victim. Also, I agree with O_Guru. Prove that he was hiding. No one has any clue what he was doing in that shed. That's sort of the point.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    What kind of ****ed up legal system permits the lawful execution of a terrified kid hiding in a shed?
    The article says nothing about a terrified kid hiding in a shed. The article only mentions that a 20 year old which is a man and that man was high on meth and armed and he was standing in a shed when he was shot.

    Is "terrified kid" some new pc term for "high on meth 20 something year old junkie"?

    ? Is your country run by mass murderers who love killing? I am surprised that it isn't illegal in your country to not rape whoever you please.

    See what I did then?
    I do know that in my country a woman can use lethal force to stop an attempted rapist while in your country she would be expected to lie there and take it.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 09-04-11 at 04:21 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  3. #873
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by O_Guru View Post
    I challenge anybody to prove the following fallacies.

    he was a kid
    he was hiding
    he was murdered

    can anybody prove these 3 fallacies to be true?
    What you seem to be asking us to do, is prove those items as fallacies - why would we wish to do that? If you are in fact asking the opposite, I will try to answer you.

    Whether he was a kid or not is in the eye of the beholder, and not a relevant issue. To me, he was not a kid, to my mum and grandma, he was.

    According to the article he ran into the shed, closing the door, in order to escape the wrath of the three men, of whom at least one was armed. He was seeking refuge out of sight, that would appear to satisfy most of the requirements of the term 'hiding'.

    He was shot dead while behind the door of the shed. He was not engaging in aggressive behaviour of any kind, nor was he threatening anyone. He was not shot by accident - the man who pulled the trigger did so with the clear intent of shooting, and possibly killing, him. In most jurisdictions, that would be considered an unlawful killing, and thus either first or second degree murder. At the very least, that could be considered manslaughter. It is a matter of legal interpretation.
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

  4. #874
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    What you seem to be asking us to do, is prove those items as fallacies - why would we wish to do that? If you are in fact asking the opposite, I will try to answer you.

    Whether he was a kid or not is in the eye of the beholder, and not a relevant issue. To me, he was not a kid, to my mum and grandma, he was.

    According to the article he ran into the shed, closing the door, in order to escape the wrath of the three men, of whom at least one was armed. He was seeking refuge out of sight, that would appear to satisfy most of the requirements of the term 'hiding'.

    He was shot dead while behind the door of the shed. He was not engaging in aggressive behaviour of any kind, nor was he threatening anyone. He was not shot by accident - the man who pulled the trigger did so with the clear intent of shooting, and possibly killing, him. In most jurisdictions, that would be considered an unlawful killing, and thus either first or second degree murder. At the very least, that could be considered manslaughter. It is a matter of legal interpretation.
    That proves nothing. He could have went into the shed to reload a hidden gun for all anyone knew. As you've already said, no one knew for sure whether he was armed or not. It turns out he was, only it wasn't a gun. Why must people be expected to coddle meth addict thieves while they get pillaged? I can't understand the way you people think. It's almost like we're living on a different planet.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  5. #875
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    What you seem to be asking us to do, is prove those items as fallacies - why would we wish to do that? If you are in fact asking the opposite, I will try to answer you.

    Whether he was a kid or not is in the eye of the beholder, and not a relevant issue. To me, he was not a kid, to my mum and grandma, he was.

    According to the article he ran into the shed, closing the door, in order to escape the wrath of the three men, of whom at least one was armed. He was seeking refuge out of sight, that would appear to satisfy most of the requirements of the term 'hiding'.

    He was shot dead while behind the door of the shed. He was not engaging in aggressive behaviour of any kind, nor was he threatening anyone. He was not shot by accident - the man who pulled the trigger did so with the clear intent of shooting, and possibly killing, him. In most jurisdictions, that would be considered an unlawful killing, and thus either first or second degree murder. At the very least, that could be considered manslaughter. It is a matter of legal interpretation.
    What I want people to do is to back up their false statements instead of repeating lies and appeals to emotion all the time but thank you for answering at least you did it. A couple of people here seem to be making statements that are not based on reality.


    So lets go through your answers:
    1: Fact is, he was NOT a kid he was a LEGAL adult period. We could talk about semantics all we want but in "reality" he was an adult.

    2.) According to the article he went into a shed PERIOD, anything else is pure 100% guessing and speculation by you.

    He COULD have been hiding
    He COULD have been hiding and planing on stealing later
    He COULD have been look for a better weapon than his THREE knives, axe, big pipe, shovel etc
    He COULD have been in there planing to ambush anybody that came in or near the shed
    He COULD have been in there readying his weapons (we know them NOW to only have been knives but to the guy that shot him they could have been anything)

    with the info in the article ALL of these are EQUALLY possible, we do not know and to act like you know is dishonesty.

    also you are assuming he wasn't doing anything aggressive, in some opinions jumping the wall and attempting to steal IS aggressive and the guy that shot him did NOT know what he was doing in the shed.

    Thanks for your opinion and assumptions, as I admit I have my own. But the fact remains the 3 false things Id love ANYBODY to prove that people keep stating are still false or pure guesses.

    So again I challenge anybody to prove any of those three things true because so far there's no logical reason to yet. The challenge still remains.

    Prove the following fallacies that have been repeated in this thread by about 5 people.

    he was a kid
    he was hiding
    he was murdered

    can anybody prove these 3 fallacies to be true?
    PURE STUPIDITY 1.) Glenn Beck doesnt lie. 2.) Obama is Jesus like 3.) Sara Palin is so smart & shes a great speaker. 4.) Obama does just about everything perfect. 5.) Fox doesn' t lean right 6.) Pro-Choice is no different than Pro-Slavery 7.) MSNBC doesn't lean left. 8.) What TSA does is no different than sexual assault & child porn.

  6. #876
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Believe it or not people DID live in Texas prior to the invention of air conditioning. Personally, I prefer it hot over cold anyway.
    Yeah, I'm sure had they tasted air-conditioning, they would have opted to do without. I like hot over cold myself - why I didn't like living in NH, but I wouldn't want to give up my AC in my car or home or anywhere I go on a hot summer day in Texas.




    I believe many of those things can still exist in a proper society.
    So, you think we have an improper society? Your idea of what is proper and what isn't may just be a matter of opinion and not necessarily good.


    I think we just need to take a step back and realize what the appropriate bondaries on the use and implementation of those devices ought to be.
    But by whose standards? Like I said in the previous statement, your idea of what is proper is not everyone else's idea. I've seen some awful behavior coming from Reps in Congress toward the president, but most Reps/cons would think it was proper, even defended it.


    Some of the things we've created might not be useful in a moral society, but many would be, even if their uses might be somewhat restrained. In my mind it is more important to live a proper life than a fun or pleasant one.
    Since I have no idea to what you are alluding, it is hard for me to comment. I live a proper life, based on my own assessment of my life, but someone else might not like the way I live, and who am I to push my beliefs on others?



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





  7. #877
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by O_Guru View Post
    I challenge anybody to prove the following fallacies.

    he was a kid
    he was hiding
    he was murdered

    can anybody prove these 3 fallacies to be true?
    What is your definition of a kid? A three year old?

    And, what do you think he was doing in the shed - of course he was hiding. He had already been shot at, certainly he wasn't figuring on how to steal the shed.

    He was shot through the door. Stealing does not carry the death penalty in any state in the US that I know of.



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





  8. #878
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by O_Guru View Post
    What I want people to do is to back up their false statements instead of repeating lies and appeals to emotion all the time but thank you for answering at least you did it. A couple of people here seem to be making statements that are not based on reality.
    That goes for both sides of the argument.


    So lets go through your answers:
    1: Fact is, he was NOT a kid he was a LEGAL adult period. We could talk about semantics all we want but in "reality" he was an adult.
    He wasn't even old enough to drink beer legally.

    2.) According to the article he went into a shed PERIOD, anything else is pure 100% guessing and speculation by you.
    And that also goes for "imagining" that he was loading a gun, or sharpening his knife.

    He COULD have been hiding
    He COULD have been hiding and planing on stealing later
    He COULD have been look for a better weapon than his THREE knives, axe, big pipe, shovel etc
    He COULD have been in there planing to ambush anybody that came in or near the shed
    He COULD have been in there readying his weapons (we know them NOW to only have been knives but to the guy that shot him they could have been anything)
    All irrelevant. The two men were armed and had already shot at him, they could have called police and threatened to shoot if he came out - they didn't have to shoot through the door.

    with the info in the article ALL of these are EQUALLY possible, we do not know and to act like you know is dishonesty.
    They are also equally unimportant.

    also you are assuming he wasn't doing anything aggressive, in some opinions jumping the wall and attempting to steal IS aggressive and the guy that shot him did NOT know what he was doing in the shed.
    You need to read the story again. Of course they knew why he was in the shed, they chased him there, with guns. If the thief had a gun don't you think he would have shot back?


    So again I challenge anybody to prove any of those three things true because so far there's no logical reason to yet. The challenge still remains.
    Your challenge is inane. To some he was a kid - a 20 year old is not much of an adult. And, the fact he was in the shed is more reason for the men to not have had to shoot him. They were armed and could have kept him there till the police arrived, instead they acted like thugs themselves and became judge and jury and sentenced him to death.

    The jury made their decision based on the law. It is unlawful to play vigilante, plain and simple. They are lucky they were not charged with murder. Stealing does not carry the death penalty in any of the states in the US.



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





  9. #879
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    What is your definition of a kid? A three year old?
    A minor. Maybe even someone under 15 years of age.

    And, what do you think he was doing in the shed - of course he was hiding. He had already been shot at, certainly he wasn't figuring on how to steal the shed.
    I think O_Guru and evanescence hit the nail on the head on the possibilities. Possibly the burglar could have been loading a weapon, looking for a weapon,trying to ambush and all sorts of other reasons.


    He was shot through the door. Stealing does not carry the death penalty in any state in the US that I know of.
    He was a burglar that was shot. In many places it is legal to shoot a burglar. That's why none of the shop owners are in prison for murder (or even a lesser charge) of one burglar and attempted murder of the other burglar. Even though there was evidence one of the shop owners shot the burglar, evidence the gun belongs to one of the shop owners, evidence that one of the shop owners was the last person to fire the gun,evidence that the bullet came out of the gun that the owner fired, a wittiness that says one of the shop owners shot at the burglars and a confession that one of the shop owners shot the burglars. The US is not some Eurotrash country that values the lives of burglars over that of property owners.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    The US is not some Eurotrash country that values the lives of burglars over that of property owners.
    James, there is much of great value in Americans and in US society - please don't advertise the worst aspects of your society as a recommendation of some spurious sort - you do your fellow Americans a disservice. Talk about your friendliness as a society, about your generosity, your inventivesness, and your material progress. You will get agreement, and admiration for your achievements, from most sensible people.
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

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