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Thread: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

  1. #861
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    I get that as well, and of course the civil verdict was a good thing from my perspective (although not good enough). However, it seems fairly obvious that these guys violated criminal laws as well. What I can't understand is how someone could take theft and drug use so seriously, while simultaneously not thinking that people who have murdered someone ought to be in prison. I mean, if theft is a big deal, isn't murder quite a lot worse?
    I don't consider killing a thief in the act to be murder. At worst, "homicide in the public interest with an excess of zeal." I realize that isn't the legal definition... but to me it is a moral one. To be a murder victim, IMO, one must be reasonably innocent or at least not be committing a felony against the shooter at the time. The grand jury apparently agreed with me. The letter of the law isn't always justice.

    These guys had suffered multiple thefts; it was night time and maybe hard to see clearly; it was the heat of the moment, with decisions made in a split second. I don't feel I have the right to second-guess them too much; I agree they were overzealous and should have been more careful, but I can't call it murder.

    I'll admit I'm kind of case-hardened about this sort of thing. Sure, the man who died was a living soul, and every living soul has value... but he was wasting his life as an addict and an armed thief, preying on others, and odds are he would only have gotten worse as the years went by and maybe killed some innocent person some day. If I allowed myself to feel for him, I could say I was sorry that he put himself in that position, but to me that's exactly what he did: put himself in a position where somebody was liable to get killed. Better him that an honest man. Sure, it's sad that people do this to themselves and those who love them, but the world is like that.

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  2. #862
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    The fact that he had three knives upon his person is irrelevant to his being shot dead. Nobody, including the men who shot him, knew of the knives until his body was examined. He neither wielded the knives nor threatened anybody with them, so in the course of the incident, he was effectively unarmed. There was no threat, direct or indirect - he was attempting to flee.
    As Goshin pointed out, most thieves tend to be armed, so they made a reasonable assumption, and they were right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    I care, because we live in an allegedly civilized society, and in such a society we have rules and we have Constitutional Due Process. These three guys took the law into their own hands and decided that some person they've never met, about whom they know nothing, deserved to die. This is not rational, it's not just, and it's not legal.
    Do we? If we did indeed live in a civilized society, would there be drugs addicts stealing to support their habits while their kids went without? Would we have rampant child abuse and rape? This is not a civilized society by any stretch of the imagination, and people are basically forced to defend themselves, their families, and their livelihoods because the police cannot.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Well said!!

    That's should have been the end of thread right there...

    There's really nothing else to say. Anyone who disagrees or doesn't understand the core concepts you so succinctly summed up is living in the wrong country.
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Nah, the liberal mentality is that people should follow the law. Crazy, I know.
    That's not the liberal mentality. But some of them lie a lot to, so whatever.
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    As Goshin pointed out, most thieves tend to be armed, so they made a reasonable assumption, and they were right.
    I expect we may not achieve any significant level of mutual agreement on this issue, largely because our societies and personal values appear to be so markedly different. In my society, very few thieves go armed, so it is an unreasonable assumption (in the absence of evidence) that someone making off with the silver will be carrying a gun or any other offensive weapon. The courts are aware of this and, should you use lethal violence upon him, will deal with you accordingly. From what you say, this is not so in your society. So, while I respect your, and Goshin's, views in the context of your particular society, I cannot share them in mine.
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    I expect we may not achieve any significant level of mutual agreement on this issue, largely because our societies and personal values appear to be so markedly different. In my society, very few thieves go armed, so it is an unreasonable assumption (in the absence of evidence) that someone making off with the silver will be carrying a gun or any other offensive weapon. The courts are aware of this and, should you use lethal violence upon him, will deal with you accordingly. From what you say, this is not so in your society. So, while I respect your, and Goshin's, views in the context of your particular society, I cannot share them in mine.
    What kind of ****ed up people do you have in office that would make it illegal to use lethal force to stop burglars? Is your country ran by thieves only trying to protect themselves or relatives? I am surprised that it isn't illegal in your country to resist burglars and rapist.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 09-04-11 at 02:36 AM.
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    What kind of ****ed up people do you have in office that would make it illegal to use lethal force to stop burglars? Is your country ran by thieves only trying to protect themselves or relatives? I am surprised that it isn't illegal in your country to resist burglars and rapist.
    What kind of ****ed up legal system permits the lawful execution of a terrified kid hiding in a shed? Is your country run by mass murderers who love killing? I am surprised that it isn't illegal in your country to not rape whoever you please.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    What kind of ****ed up legal system permits the lawful execution of a terrified kid hiding in a shed? Is your country run by mass murderers who love killing? I am surprised that it isn't illegal in your country to not rape whoever you please.

    See what I did then?
    where in the article did it say he was a "kid"? The way people describe this meth head is hilarious. First he was a victim, now he's a kid.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    where in the article did it say he was a "kid"? The way people describe this meth head is hilarious. First he was a victim, now he's a kid.
    He was 20 years old - in parts of your society, that is not old enough to buy a beer. I do not consider him a kid becuase he was two years older than me, but to someone of my parent's age, he could well be considered a kid. It depends upon the age of the person describing him.
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    where in the article did it say he was a "kid"? The way people describe this meth head is hilarious. First he was a victim, now he's a kid.
    In the middle.

    He's is a victim. He was shot to death while hiding in a shed. He's the victim of a crime.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    I challenge anybody to prove the following fallacies.

    he was a kid
    he was hiding
    he was murdered

    can anybody prove these 3 fallacies to be true?
    PURE STUPIDITY 1.) Glenn Beck doesnt lie. 2.) Obama is Jesus like 3.) Sara Palin is so smart & shes a great speaker. 4.) Obama does just about everything perfect. 5.) Fox doesn' t lean right 6.) Pro-Choice is no different than Pro-Slavery 7.) MSNBC doesn't lean left. 8.) What TSA does is no different than sexual assault & child porn.

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