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Thread: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

  1. #831
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    I care, because we live in an allegedly civilized society, and in such a society we have rules and we have Constitutional Due Process. These three guys took the law into their own hands and decided that some person they've never met, about whom they know nothing, deserved to die. This is not rational, it's not just, and it's not legal.
    I understand your position. I don't really disagree with the general sentiment that vigilantism is bad; the reason we have due process is because subjective decisions made in haste are often made in error.

    But based on the fact that this guy WAS a meth-head thief scumbag, I'd have a hard time penalizing the biz owners for killing him. Yeah, they went about it in an overly aggressive and hasty manner, but it it is hard to argue against the Texas Defense: "he needed killing".

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  2. #832
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    I care, because we live in an allegedly civilized society, and in such a society we have rules and we have Constitutional Due Process. These three guys took the law into their own hands and decided that some person they've never met, about whom they know nothing, deserved to die. This is not rational, it's not just, and it's not legal.
    wow do you write fiction?
    thats a nice false way to tell the story

    in a civilized country he should have kept his ass on his side of the fence and then the guy who shot him simply wouldnt have to wonder if he was a threat

    no rules were broken
    due process wasnt broken
    no one took the law in their own hands they used their rights
    and they did no something for sure about the guy, he was a criminal and couldnt be trusted

    it was rational, just and legal IMO that why they didnt go to jail

    but again I invite you to please prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the guy was not a threat and I also would like you to correct your earlier incorrect statement of "The grand jury uses the same standard of proof as does a civil trial. I've pointed this out at least half a dozen times. Either you're deliberately ignoring information or you have a very poor memory."

    but my guess is you wont, again
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    see the blind man, he's shooting at the world
    the bullets flying, ooh there taking toll
    If you've been bad - ohhh lord I bet you have
    and you've not been hit, you've not been hit by flying lead
    you'd better close your eyes
    you better bow your head
    wait for the ricochet....
    sweet child in time you'll see the line.
    the line thats drawn between the good and bad.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    I also would like you to correct your earlier incorrect statement of "The grand jury uses the same standard of proof as does a civil trial. I've pointed this out at least half a dozen times. Either you're deliberately ignoring information or you have a very poor memory."

    but my guess is you wont, again
    Junior, it is as plain that your are completely ignorant of the law as it is that it's past your bedtime. Turn off the flashlight before your dad discovers you posting under the covers.


    "Probable cause is a relatively low standard of evidence, which is used in the United States to determine whether a search, or an arrest, is warranted. It is also used by grand juries to determine whether to issue an indictment. In the civil context, this standard is often used where plaintiffs are seeking a prejudgement remedy."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_burden_of_proof
    Last edited by AdamT; 09-03-11 at 12:44 AM.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Junior, it is as plain that your are completely ignorant of the law as it is that it's past your bedtime. Turn off the flashlight before your dad discovers you posting under the covers.

    Moderator's Warning:
    Burglar's family awarded 0,000 in wrongful death suit I've already posted a warning in this thread that personal attacks and ad-homs were excessive, and no further such attacks would be permitted. That's an infraction and threadban. Anyone else?

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    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Junior, it is as plain that your are completely ignorant of the law as it is that it's past your bedtime. Turn off the flashlight before your dad discovers you posting under the covers.


    "Probable cause is a relatively low standard of evidence, which is used in the United States to determine whether a search, or an arrest, is warranted. It is also used by grand juries to determine whether to issue an indictment. In the civil context, this standard is often used where plaintiffs are seeking a prejudgement remedy."
    Legal burden of proof - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    what on gods green earth are you talking about are you insinuating that civil and criminal proof is the same because you would be in fact WRONG

    criminal uses PROOF beyond reasonable doubt
    civil does NOT do the same

    sorry you are 100% wrong

    you are talking about PROBABLE CAUSE something different than how a verdict is rendered LMAO
    didnt you say you are a lawyer???????? please save the failed insults and stick to facts.

    fact remains his statement is 100% wrong
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    The Differences between a Criminal Case and a Civil Case


    The American legal system is comprised of two very different types of cases, civil and criminal. Crimes are generally offenses against the state, and are accordingly prosecuted by the state. Civil cases on the other hand, are typically disputes between individuals regarding the legal duties and responsibilities they owe one another.

    Here are some of the key differences between a criminal case and a civil case:

    Crimes are considered offenses against the state, or society as a whole. That means that even though one person might murder another person, murder itself is considered an offense to everyone in society. Accordingly, crimes against the state are prosecuted by the state, and the prosecutor (not the victim) files the case in court as a representative of the state. If it were a civil case, then the wronged party would file the case.

    Criminal offenses and civil offenses are generally different in terms of their punishment. Criminal cases will have jail time as a potential punishment, whereas civil cases generally only result in monetary damages or orders to do or not do something. Note that a criminal case may involve both jail time and monetary punishments in the form of fines.
    The standard of proof is also very different in a criminal case versus a civil case. Crimes must generally be proved "beyond a reasonable doubt", whereas civil cases are proved by lower standards of proof such as "the preponderance of the evidence" (which essentially means that it was more likely than not that something occurred in a certain way). The difference in standards exists because civil liability is considered less blameworthy and because the punishments are less severe.

    Criminal cases almost always allow for a trial by jury. Civil cases do allow juries in some instances, but many civil cases will be decided by a judge.
    A defendant in a criminal case is entitled to an attorney, and if he or she can't afford one, the state must provide an attorney. A defendant in a civil case is not given an attorney and must pay for one, or else defend him or herself.
    The protections afforded to defendants under criminal law are considerable (such as the protection against illegal searches and seizures under the 4th Amendment). Many of these well known protections are not available to a defendant in a civil case.

    In general, because criminal cases have greater consequences - the possibility of jail and even death - criminal cases have many more protections in place and are harder to prove.
    The Same Conduct Can Produce Civil and Criminal Liability

    Although criminal and civil cases are treated very differently, many people often fail to recognize that the same conduct can result in both criminal and civil liability. Perhaps one of the most famous examples of this is the OJ Simpson trial. The same conduct led to a murder trial (criminal) and a wrongful death trial (civil). In part because of the different standards of proof, there was not enough evidence for a jury to decide that OJ Simpson was guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt" in the criminal murder case. In the civil trial, however, the jury found enough evidence to conclude that OJ Simpson wrongfully caused his wife's death by a "preponderance of the evidence".



    thank you, thank you
    Last edited by AGENT J; 09-03-11 at 12:57 AM.
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    didnt you say you are a lawyer???????? please save the failed insults and stick to facts.

    Moderator's Warning:
    Burglar's family awarded 0,000 in wrongful death suit And there was another one. Anybody else want to ignore a mod directive to keep it civil? The Hammer is waiting...

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I understand your position. I don't really disagree with the general sentiment that vigilantism is bad; the reason we have due process is because subjective decisions made in haste are often made in error.

    But based on the fact that this guy WAS a meth-head thief scumbag, I'd have a hard time penalizing the biz owners for killing him. Yeah, they went about it in an overly aggressive and hasty manner, but it it is hard to argue against the Texas Defense: "he needed killing".
    Being either a thief or a meth head is not a capital offense in this or any other country. Maybe he was a scumbag. Maybe he was one of the rare druggie assholes who would have gotten his life together at some point in the future. We have no way of knowing, and now we never will. Nobody has the right to make that decision.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    Being either a thief or a meth head is not a capital offense in this or any other country. Maybe he was a scumbag. Maybe he was one of the rare druggie assholes who would have gotten his life together at some point in the future. We have no way of knowing, and now we never will. Nobody has the right to make that decision.
    If they'd gone to his house, or his regular hangout, and hunted him down and killed him dead just because he was a drug addict, I'd entirely agree that was murder and completely unjustifiable.

    However, that's not what happened. The dead scumbag went to their place of business with intent to rob while armed. Different kettle of fish, IMO.... he was killed in the commission of a serious felony while armed and potentially dangerous.

    If he'd stayed home, he'd still be alive.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

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