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Thread: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    No, that is certainly not true. Just because someone is acquitted of murder, or not brought to trial, doesn't mean that they didn't do the crime. It simply means that it hasn't been proven in a criminal court.
    in that case...you are a paedophile. sure, you haven't been charged or tried or convicted...but it is my OPINION and that is all that counts right? someone's opinion?



    No, that is also not true. I am arguing that the grand jury reached the wrong conclusion under the law. You are arguing two things, as I indicated above. 1) that the law is wrong, and 2) that the grand jury and not the civil jury made the right decision under the law as written.
    more of your opinion. you can't even understand what we are argueing, so you make something up.
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    A human life carries vastly more moral weight than property. There is no comparison.

    Furthermore, the victim posed no direct threat to anyone's property. He had already been ambushed and was being held at gunpoint when he was murdered.
    ambush = dishonesty
    No threat = opinion
    murdered = false
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    A human life carries vastly more moral weight than property. There is no comparison.
    agreed

    Furthermore, the victim posed no direct threat to anyone's property.
    that is only your opinion.

    He had already been ambushed and was being held at gunpoint when he was murdered.
    wrong again. you try to make it sound like they made him kneel and shot him in the head.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Apparently nuance escapes you. An indirect threat is not grounds for taking a person's life. There was certainly no direct threat here.
    in your OPINION. funny how it keeps coming back to that.
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    in that case...you are a paedophile. sure, you haven't been charged or tried or convicted...but it is my OPINION and that is all that counts right? someone's opinion?
    It doesn't matter what your opinion is -- what matters is the FACT that there are people walking around who have committed all sorts of crimes that they haven't been convicted of. If you had committed pedophilia against your young cousin, but he didn't tell anyone, does that make you not a paedophile?

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    It doesn't matter what your opinion is -- what matters is the FACT that there are people walking around who have committed all sorts of crimes that they haven't been convicted of. If you had committed pedophilia against your young cousin, but he didn't tell anyone, does that make you not a paedophile?
    yes it IS a fact there are people out there that have commit crimes that are walking around, true

    because that is true that does NOT make this guy a murderer LMAO

    the dishonesty never stops with you
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Moderator's Warning:
    Burglar's family awarded 0,000 in wrongful death suit The personal attacks and ad-homs have gotten excessive in this thread. Be civil, or Goshin's Silver Hammer will be coming down on someone's head.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    You are aware that in a criminal trial they have to prove guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. They do not have have to do that in a civil trial. So the standards are much lower for a civil trial. If what these shop owners did was illegal there was certainly a confession,evidence and possible witnesses(the scumbag who did not get shot and the shop owner who did not kill the burglar). You are telling me that a grand jury and prosecutor is going to ignore a case that would have been a slam dunk?
    1) The grand jury uses the same standard of proof as does a civil trial. I've pointed this out at least half a dozen times. Either you're deliberately ignoring information or you have a very poor memory.

    2) I'm saying that the decisions of the two juries cannot be reconciled, so one of them did not do their job. Once again, the civil jury heard the evidence that was most in favor of the defendants, and reached a conclusion least favorable to them. Consequently relying on the fact that the grand jury chose not to indict tells us nothing about what actually happened. I can't believe I have to say this again.


    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Yes the jury in the civil trial is full of crap.
    Maybe. Maybe the grand jury is full of crap. We have no way of knowing which. So the above statement is just wishful thinking on your part. This is why it would make more sense for you to argue based on the facts available, and the law as we know it. I've already done so. Why don't you make the effort now and see if you can make an argument that actually involves facts and reasoning rather than wishful thinking?


    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I think you like to ignore the fact that the grand jury chose not to go through with a criminal trial because it shoots your argument that these men are murderers down the drain.
    And you, apparently, like to ignore pages and pages of posts that I've written in which I specifically talked about how meaningless the grand jury verdict is; because without it, you don't have a leg to stand on. And apparently you're too much of a coward to actually apply the facts to the law. I suspect you refuse to do this because you already know that doing so would demonstrate that I'm right.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    1) The grand jury uses the same standard of proof as does a civil trial. I've pointed this out at least half a dozen times. Either you're deliberately ignoring information or you have a very poor memory.

    2) I'm saying that the decisions of the two juries cannot be reconciled, so one of them did not do their job. Once again, the civil jury heard the evidence that was most in favor of the defendants, and reached a conclusion least favorable to them. Consequently relying on the fact that the grand jury chose not to indict tells us nothing about what actually happened. I can't believe I have to say this again.




    Maybe. Maybe the grand jury is full of crap. We have no way of knowing which. So the above statement is just wishful thinking on your part. This is why it would make more sense for you to argue based on the facts available, and the law as we know it. I've already done so. Why don't you make the effort now and see if you can make an argument that actually involves facts and reasoning rather than wishful thinking?




    And you, apparently, like to ignore pages and pages of posts that I've written in which I specifically talked about how meaningless the grand jury verdict is; because without it, you don't have a leg to stand on. And apparently you're too much of a coward to actually apply the facts to the law. I suspect you refuse to do this because you already know that doing so would demonstrate that I'm right.
    the bold is 100% not true, it gets ignore because it is not true criminal juries and civil juries do NOT use the same standard.

    Criminal has to be proved "beyond a reasonable doubt" civil cases do not have to be that way

    ive invited you to prove that they committed murder beyond a reasonable doubt and you have declined. Please prove this fact, we are all waiting.
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Apparently nuance escapes you. An indirect threat is not grounds for taking a person's life. There was certainly no direct threat here.
    Yes, there was a direct threat. He was armed. Therefore, there was a threat. An indirect threat could mean that he was unarmed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    A human life carries vastly more moral weight than property. There is no comparison.
    That depends. A meth addict is low life scum. I wouldn't lose ten cents because of someone like that. They are nothing but a drag on society, and a burden to everyone around them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Furthermore, the victim posed no direct threat to anyone's property. He had already been ambushed and was being held at gunpoint when he was murdered.
    The victim???

    I read nothing about a victim. I read about a low life, thieving drug addict who got put out of his misery by someone defending themselves and their property. But there was no murder, and no victim.
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