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Thread: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    the grand jury didn't think these guys did your OPINION counts for piss
    And your opinion counts for more than piss?

    In any case, I was speaking in terms of the law -- not this particular case.

    The vigilantes seem to be confusing two different arguments, here. On the one hand you want to argue that the law is wrong and that we should be able to kill people who threaten our property, and OTOH you want to argue that the shooters in this case weren't protecting their property, but in fact were reasonably fearful of their own safety. You should try to keep these issues separate so as not to appear even more irrational.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    And your opinion counts for more than piss?
    it's not my opinion, it was the opinion of the grand jury. and their opinion counts for more than both of ours together.

    In any case, I was speaking in terms of the law -- not this particular case.
    then start your own thread. we are talking about this particular case. you can hypothetical till your nuts fall off.
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    it's not my opinion, it was the opinion of the grand jury. and their opinion counts for more than both of ours together.
    Please. This forum is about opinions, and your opinion is that the grand jury was right and the the civil jury was wrong. At least be honest about that.

    then start your own thread. we are talking about this particular case. you can hypothetical till your nuts fall off.
    I'm happy to just talk about this case, but you and the other members of the vigilante posse seem to want to argue that the law is wrong. Perhaps you should start another thread under that topic heading.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    Dang, some of them don't mind letting everyone know just how clever they would be at disobeying the law, fooling the cops and getting away with a crime, but they are the "patriots" who love the Constitution! Barf!
    Current laws have strayed far from the constitution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Ambushing and killing a person who poses no direct threat is murder. It's a moral judgment not a legal one.

    Sorry if that goes over your heard, I know you have trouble comprehending morals, Oscar.
    Implying that an armed thief, high on Meth was no threat is both ignorant and dishonest.
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Please. This forum is about opinions, and your opinion is that the grand jury was right and the the civil jury was wrong. At least be honest about that.
    if they were murderers, they'd be in prison. you lose



    I'm happy to just talk about this case, but you and the other members of the vigilante posse seem to want to argue that the law is wrong. Perhaps you should start another thread under that topic heading.
    you are the one arguing the law is wrong. we are arguing that, under the law, what they did was not murder. sorry, you lose again
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    if they were murderers, they'd be in prison. you lose
    No, that is certainly not true. Just because someone is acquitted of murder, or not brought to trial, doesn't mean that they didn't do the crime. It simply means that it hasn't been proven in a criminal court.


    you are the one arguing the law is wrong. we are arguing that, under the law, what they did was not murder. sorry, you lose again
    No, that is also not true. I am arguing that the grand jury reached the wrong conclusion under the law. You are arguing two things, as I indicated above. 1) that the law is wrong, and 2) that the grand jury and not the civil jury made the right decision under the law as written.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    Implying that an armed thief, high on Meth was no threat is both ignorant and dishonest.
    Apparently nuance escapes you. An indirect threat is not grounds for taking a person's life. There was certainly no direct threat here.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Well one guy just finally gave up because he knows his false opinion is a fantasy. BUT im still waiting for any of the few, I think 3 now to prove how this guy was NOT a threat, hod do they know and how can they prove it beyond reasonable belief?

    Bottom line is if the armed high junkie keeps his ass out of the guys property we never have to question whether he was a threat or not but since he couldnt stop himself from clearly breaking the law it cam always be questioned.
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    How many times have we gone over this now? A dozen? See if you can grasp this concept: a grand jury is not a criminal trial. In a grand jury proceding, the standard of proof (to get an indictment -- not a conviction) is the preponderance of the evidence --
    And why didn't they get an indictment? I am pretty sure that when the shop owners called 911 one of them said they shot the burglar,which is a confession. There is the weapon that killed one of the armed high on meth burglars which is evidence. The other burglar probably saw what happened so there is a witness.So with all those things why didn't the grand just get an indictment? If this was clearly a murder and they have a confession,evidence and a witness that one of the shop owners killed a burglar why didn't the grand jury get an indictment? Murder is a pretty big crime, this isn't a measly jay walking offense.


    exactly the same standard that the civil jury used when it determined that the shooters were not acting in self defense.
    The same standard of evidence used in a criminal trial is not the same as one in a civil trial. This has been pointed out to you more than once. So the fact that a civil trial found the shop owners liable is hardly a victor and it is not proof these men are murderers.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Yeah, we can't have people protecting their property. The whole property rights thing is just feel good speak.
    A human life carries vastly more moral weight than property. There is no comparison.

    Furthermore, the victim posed no direct threat to anyone's property. He had already been ambushed and was being held at gunpoint when he was murdered.

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