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Thread: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    You say that based on what? Reading a news article about the case? How many degrees removed from the facts of the case are you?

    The fact is that nobody is better equipped to decide these things than the jury who hears the case. Certainly not somebody who is unfamiliar with the facts.

    A libertarian should be embracing tort law, not opposing it. Torts are the very definition of personal accountability. It's only when the government comes in and starts to monkey with a thousand years of common law that things become problematic and ultimately unjust.
    I largely agree with this, but with the caveat that I have no problem with Constitutional limits on punitive damages (i.e. with the current state of affairs). Obviously any kind of Constitutional limit is, in some sense, a government intrusion into the tort process.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I believe his point was that the jury has access to all of the facts and testimony, whereas a poster on a forum has access to only a minute fraction of the facts and evidence.
    ...and my point was that it's possible for someone who is more intelligent to make better conclusions with fewer facts.
    "With me everything turns into mathematics."
    "It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well."
    "It is truth very certain that, when it is not in one's power to determine what is true, we ought to follow what is more probable." -- Rene Descartes

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I believe his point was that the jury has access to all of the facts and testimony, whereas a poster on a forum has access to only a minute fraction of the facts and evidence.
    Precisely.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    ...and my point was that it's possible for someone who is more intelligent to make better conclusions with fewer facts.
    It may be possible, but it's not likely in a legal context, and it's a far cry from certain. At the very least one should be extremely wary of doing such a thing. Anything else is just arrogance and presumption.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    I largely agree with this, but with the caveat that I have no problem with Constitutional limits on punitive damages (i.e. with the current state of affairs). Obviously any kind of Constitutional limit is, in some sense, a government intrusion into the tort process.
    I think there is some room to disagree on it. I personally prefer that the courts oversee these kind of things rather than legislators who are more apt to make uninformed laws just to please the public-- or special interests.

    Caps on punitive damages are one thing, but total damage award caps are quite another, and can make it de facto impossible to sue in certain cases. A lot of states that do "tort reform" in med mal cases make the damage caps so low it is virtually impossible to sue doctors for any reason, because the damage caps make it cost prohibitive.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 08-30-11 at 09:35 PM.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Sounds like you're advocating the elimination of the jury system altogether.
    I think selecting jurors who are at least 80 percentile in IQ would be a good threshold to prevent my concerns about what I mentioned.
    "With me everything turns into mathematics."
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    "It is truth very certain that, when it is not in one's power to determine what is true, we ought to follow what is more probable." -- Rene Descartes

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I think there is some room to disagree on it. I personally prefer that the courts oversee these kind of things rather than legislators who are more apt to make uninformed laws just to please the public. Caps on punitive damages are one thing, but total damage award caps are quite another, and can make it de facto impossible to sue in certain cases. A lot of states that do "tort reform" in med mal cases make the damage caps so low it is virtually impossible to sue doctors for any reason, because the damage caps make it cost prohibitive.
    I agree. I, like many lawyers (and I think you're one of us), am wary of legislative involvement in my world. They sometimes don't know what the hell they're talking about, and even the ones that do know what the hell they're talking about are professionally beholden to an audience of people who don't (i.e. to their constituents). This leads to dumbass decisions. We see the same kind of stupidity in the criminal realm (e.g. mandatory minimums).

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    I think selecting jurors who are at least 80 percentile in IQ would be a good threshold to prevent my concerns about what I mentioned.
    So you just want to throw out that whole "jury of ones peers" concept?

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    So you just want to throw out that whole "jury of ones peers" concept?
    Not to mention the associated Constitutional issue...

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    Who here said it is?

    I dont think its a reasonable punishment had he been caught down the street or taken to trail.

    Thats NOT what happened though, what happened is that this degenerate got caught in the act and got himself shot by people defending their property because this armed junkie couldn't be trusted. Hazard of being a high armed trespasser

    I dont think breaking an entering should be lawfully punished by death either but if while you are breaking and entering some old lady blows your head off too bad, should have kept your ass out her house and the confusion on whether "you were a threat or not" would never come into play.
    Game set and match. Bravo sir

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