Page 63 of 111 FirstFirst ... 1353616263646573 ... LastLast
Results 621 to 630 of 1109

Thread: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

  1. #621
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    You don't have to break in Ikari. You're invited.

    "Come on a my house, my house, a come on. I give you candy."

    Alright candy!

    Wait...what's that Ackbar?

    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  2. #622
    Dungeon Master
    Hooter Babe

    DiAnna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Northern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,590
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    perhaps he would of came out swinging his knives while waiting on the cops and killed somebody
    perhaps he had a gun and was planing on coming out shooting or would have shot through the door himself
    perhaps if would have escaped and next time killed two children after rapping their mother

    but we'll never know because he got himself shot

    the perhaps game is fun isnt it? IT HILARIOUS that people think it only works ONE way.

    there was NO murder thats why no one was convicted of it

    Three men armed with guns, against one man hiding in a shed. Yeah. Hilarious.

  3. #623
    Sage
    Guy Incognito's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    12-02-17 @ 07:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,216

    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The courts, BTW, are part of government. It's not like government is absent here.
    There is government but there is no coercion. Did you forget what libertarians stand for? A tort is either a voluntary action or a negligent action by the tortfeasor, either way it an obligation they incurred without coercion. It's not like we're talking about taxes or some sort of government theft. This is one person making a victim of another person, and the victim getting redress. The government is only there as a referee. The courts should be the libertarian's preferred branch of government.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    If I cause 1000 dollars of damages to you, how can you justify a 100 million dollar settlement?
    Straw man. McDonalds caused exactly as much damages as the award she got. Also false, it was a 600k settlement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I could see maybe 10000 if it was grossly negligent on my part; but McDonald's wasn't grossly negligent.
    The punitive damages in Leibeck were reduced by the judge to a more reasonable amount than the original jury award. Get your facts straight before you get on your high horse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It just wasn't a large enough value to trigger market response. Now you can say you can artificially make it a large enough value via civil lawsuit; but when is "large enough" large enough?
    What are you talking about? The lawsuit got McDonald's to change their coffee lids from those flimsy white things to those heavy-duty ones with big warnings that you see today. That is a market response if ever I saw one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    We've lost reason within the court system, and that is not a good thing. No matter which way you slice it.
    No, we haven't. The system is fine, it has been for a thousand years. Stop tampering with it. The people who are being unreasonable are quixotic tort reformers like yourself, tilting at windmills, attacking an issue that you don't really understand.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 08-30-11 at 09:01 PM.

  4. #624
    Dungeon Master
    Hooter Babe

    DiAnna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Northern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,590
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    The LAW sided with the owners. I don't know why people keep saying otherwise.

    The JURORS sided, at least in part, with the victim's family. It's the fallacy of civil court. In criminal court, you're innocent until proven guilty. In civil court, you're liable until proven not liable. It's set on a percentage, which is entirely too subjective, and based on the whims of emotions. It's why Democrat lawyers make such great civil litigators. They are masters of telling a giant sob story to find those with money liable and responsible for anything and everything. Gore and Edwards got disgustingly rich off this crap in "tort court" and class-actions. Kerry would have too, if he didn't marry a woman worth 300 mil, only to divorce her for another worth 700 mil.

    If civil cases were tried in a method similar to criminal cases, these owners wouldn't have owed a red penny. That would have been a victory for the side of law-abiding citizens and a warning to drugged-out pieces of trash.
    Jury nullification. The grand jury refused to indict three upstanding citizens of the community because they found their lives more worthwhile than the life of a drug-addicted thief. It's as simple as that. Under any law of the land... Texas excluded, since one can now murder just about anyone that they think is going to damage their property... what those three men did was First Degree Murder. They are just lucky that they come from a relatively small city with grand jurors who think they get to decide who does and does not deserve justice.

    Think O.J. Simpson. The jury valued O.J.'s life more than they did the lives of his victims. It's just that simple.

  5. #625
    Jedi Master
    Captain America's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:55 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    18,656

    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    tortfeasor

    Dude, that just sounds....well...nasty. How did that get passed the curse filter?


    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
    Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy" until you can find a gun.

  6. #626
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    There is government but there is no coercion.
    How do you get that payment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Did you forget what libertarians stand for?
    Is this another of those "you're not a real libertarian" things? Those are retarded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    A tort is either a voluntary action or a negligent action by the tortfeasor, either way it an obligation they incurred without coercion.
    So when this lady sued McDonald's, McDonald's had no need to show up or recognize the verdict or make payment? If not, how are those enforced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    It's not like we're talking about taxes or some sort of government theft. This is one person making a victim of another person, and the victim getting redress. The government is only there are a referee. The courts should be the libertarian's preferred branch of government.
    It's all enforced through the government's big guns. Otherwise the rulings would be meaningless and the loser wouldn't need to pay anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Straw man. McDonalds caused exactly as much damages as the award she got. Also false, it was a 600k settlement.
    It was later taken down. Plus that question wasn't tied into the McDonald's argument. I was asking you a question. If I cause you 1000 dollars in damages, can you justify 100 million dollar award?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    The punitive damages in Leibeck were reduced by the judge to a more reasonable amount than the original jury award. Get your facts straight before you get on your high horse.
    No ****. I already knew that. Before you try to use your Madam Cleo powers, maybe you should figure out what is being talked about before opening your pie hole. The original reward was not logical nor was it warranted, which is why they did later reverse it. But the lack of reason and emotional response I was talking to wasn't that. It's the original roll. Before you want to sit there and sound off like a big man I suggest YOU get your facts straight. You seem to have no ability of clairvoyance and you suck at assumption.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    What are you talking about? The lawsuit got McDonald's to change their coffee lids from those flimsy white things to those heavy-duty ones with big warnings that you see today. That is a market response if ever I saw one.
    That was artificially produced through the courts. It wasn't a response to the market. The market wouldn't respond because the problem was such a low frequency as to be lost in the noise. It had to be amplified BEFORE the market would respond. Which is why they didn't change the temperature of the coffee till after the ruling. Jesus tap dancing christ on a pogo stick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    No, we haven't. The system is fine, it has been for a thousand years. Stop tampering with it. The people who are being unreasonable are quixotic tort reformers like yourself, tilting at windmills, attacking an issue that you don't really understand.
    I haven't tampered with anything, try to be a bit honest. Reason and logic are leaving the system with instead engineered juries who respond emotionally. I understand the issue well, again your Madam Cleo powers fail you. I've argued it a lot. And my point hasn't been to end these sorts of lawsuits, or disallow it. But rather that punishment should always fit the crime and in cases seeking monetary reimbursement it should reflect the reality of the system. Not some judgment initially based because the jurors got emotional and viewed some "evil corporation" as "needing a lesson".
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #627
    Professor
    Mathematician's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Last Seen
    09-22-17 @ 09:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    2,147

    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    The fact is that nobody is better equipped to decide these things than the jury who hears the case. Certainly not somebody who is unfamiliar with the facts.
    What a load of BS! Just because a jury hears some facts does not necessarily mean they are better equipped to decide the outcome of a case. Especially with the "jury of one's peers", jurors can possibly be swayed too easily by a testimony or have no clue how to put two and two together. It's clearly possible for one group to be able to make better logical conclusions than another group, even if they do not hear every fact the other group heard. For example, if you have a set of sentences that contains contradictory statements then no matter what sentences you add, the larger set remains a contradictory set. In fact, spotting the contradiction is often easier in the smaller set.
    "With me everything turns into mathematics."
    "It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well."
    "It is truth very certain that, when it is not in one's power to determine what is true, we ought to follow what is more probable." -- Rene Descartes

  8. #628
    Sage
    Guy Incognito's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    12-02-17 @ 07:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,216

    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    How do you get that payment?
    It's not more coercive than putting a criminal in prison. The perpetrator of a tort or a crime has given up their rights. You need to get past your superficial understanding of libertarianism and think deeply on the subject.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Is this another of those "you're not a real libertarian" things? Those are retarded.
    Stop betraying libertarian principles and I will stop calling you out on it. Also, if you knew anyone with special needs, you might choose your language a bit more carefully. Grow up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    So when this lady sued McDonald's, McDonald's had no need to show up or recognize the verdict or make payment? If not, how are those enforced?
    If they hadn't committed the tort, they wouldn't have had to answer for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's all enforced through the government's big guns. Otherwise the rulings would be meaningless and the loser wouldn't need to pay anything.
    It's enforced by government, but it isn't coercive. At least, not illegitimately so; the tortfeasor has given up their rights when they committed the tort. The jury is the mechanism that determines facts. This is our legal system. Cope.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It was later taken down. Plus that question wasn't tied into the McDonald's argument. I was asking you a question. If I cause you 1000 dollars in damages, can you justify 100 million dollar award?
    You hypothetical has no basis in reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No ****. I already knew that. Before you try to use your Madam Cleo powers, maybe you should figure out what is being talked about before opening your pie hole. The original reward was not logical nor was it warranted, which is why they did later reverse it. But the lack of reason and emotional response I was talking to wasn't that. It's the original roll. Before you want to sit there and sound off like a big man I suggest YOU get your facts straight. You seem to have no ability of clairvoyance and you suck at assumption.
    The cards don't lie. You have demonstrated that you simply haven't got an adequate command of tort law concepts to discuss it intelligently. And yet you want to dictate how tort law should work

    The fact that the judge can reduce unreasonable punitive awards is the safeguard against your Chicken Little fears of juries running amok. No need to take broad, legislative action like you're advocating.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That was artificially produced through the courts. It wasn't a response to the market. The market wouldn't respond because the problem was such a low frequency as to be lost in the noise. It had to be amplified BEFORE the market would respond. Which is why they didn't change the temperature of the coffee till after the ruling. Jesus tap dancing christ on a pogo stick.
    The market realized that they couldn't get away with half-assing their coffee lids because they would be held liable for the harm that results from said halfassed lids. That's the market, coupled with a healthy dose of personal responsibility, at work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I haven't tampered with anything, try to be a bit honest. Reason and logic are leaving the system with instead engineered juries who respond emotionally. I understand the issue well, again your Madam Cleo powers fail you. I've argued it a lot. And my point hasn't been to end these sorts of lawsuits, or disallow it. But rather that punishment should always fit the crime and in cases seeking monetary reimbursement it should reflect the reality of the system. Not some judgment initially based because the jurors got emotional and viewed some "evil corporation" as "needing a lesson".
    Lordamercy. You clearly don't understand the role of the legal system if you think emotion shouldn't play a part. Emotion is a huge part of justice. This isn't planet Vulcan. It's not all logic and reason. Juries are finders of fact in our system, and a thousand years of common law tradition have validated their important counterbalance to the cold, dispassionate logic of the judge. The jury is there precisely to be what they are.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 08-30-11 at 09:40 PM.

  9. #629
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    What a load of BS! Just because a jury hears some facts does not necessarily mean they are better equipped to decide the outcome of a case. Especially with the "jury of one's peers", jurors can possibly be swayed too easily by a testimony or have no clue how to put two and two together. It's clearly possible for one group to be able to make better logical conclusions than another group, even if they do not hear every fact the other group heard. For example, if you have a set of sentences that contains contradictory statements then no matter what sentences you add, the larger set remains a contradictory set. In fact, spotting the contradiction is often easier in the smaller set.
    I believe his point was that the jury has access to all of the facts and testimony, whereas a poster on a forum has access to only a minute fraction of the facts and evidence.

  10. #630
    Sage
    Guy Incognito's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    12-02-17 @ 07:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,216

    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    What a load of BS! Just because a jury hears some facts does not necessarily mean they are better equipped to decide the outcome of a case. Especially with the "jury of one's peers", jurors can possibly be swayed too easily by a testimony or have no clue how to put two and two together. It's clearly possible for one group to be able to make better logical conclusions than another group, even if they do not hear every fact the other group heard. For example, if you have a set of sentences that contains contradictory statements then no matter what sentences you add, the larger set remains a contradictory set. In fact, spotting the contradiction is often easier in the smaller set.
    Sounds like you're advocating the elimination of the jury system altogether.

Page 63 of 111 FirstFirst ... 1353616263646573 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •