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Thread: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    yes, I think it's an overall problem with how we select juries today. It's too engineered.

    And FYI, I did research the McDonald's trial; the jury was off its rocker to award that much. Your smarmy isn't that good, you should either get better at it or stop trying to use it.
    on a side note that is off topic since you said you researched the McDs trail. Wasnt there a loop hole in that case that proved negligence?

    I HEARD that theres a standard for the temp of coffee, and then McDs had there own ISO procedures for the temp of coffee and it was found that the temp greatly exceed that and even exceeded its days later when checked. Is that true or some internet BS.
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    yes, I think it's an overall problem with how we select juries today. It's too engineered.

    And FYI, I did research the McDonald's trial; the jury was off its rocker to award that much. Your smarmy isn't that good, you should either get better at it or stop trying to use it.
    Well that's surprising, because the case had nothing to do with cup lid, as you suggested above. Medical Malpractice in the Health Care Debate: Sucking Us Back Into the "Tort Reform" Bog? | Center for Media and Democracy

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Juries have become the lowest common denominator thanks to the engineering of lawyers. They were supposed to be intelligent and rational. I am not wrong in what I said, however. Civil courts CANNOT RULE ON CRIMINALITY OF ACT. They only judge liability.
    A distinction without a difference in this context. Also not precisely accurate. Once again, juries are finders of fact. They make determinations of what actually happened, factually. Then, depending on whether the jury is civil or criminal, they apply those factual determinations to the further determination of guilt or innocence (if criminal) or liability/fault vs lack thereof (if civil). Which is why, again, the factual conclusions that the jury reached were well within their purview.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Just trying to be helpful by pointing out a FACT that y'all may or may not have been aware of. I'm sure you all knew it already.
    HELPFUL?
    POINTING OUT FACTS??

    there is nothing in your recent post history to indicate such behavior so no matter how you FEEL about what you are doing, Im going to judge you like a reasonable subjective person would and call BS. Now wipe that egg off your face.


    LMAO
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Juries have become the lowest common denominator thanks to the engineering of lawyers. They were supposed to be intelligent and rational. I am not wrong in what I said, however. Civil courts CANNOT RULE ON CRIMINALITY OF ACT. They only judge liability.
    Right, they weren't deciding criminality, but in order to reach a verdict on liability, they did have to decide that the defendants were not acting in self defense -- which would have been a defense to liability in the civil case.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    HELPFUL?
    POINTING OUT FACTS??

    there is nothing in your recent post history to indicate such behavior so no matter how you FEEL about what you are doing, Im going to judge you like a reasonable subjective person would and call BS. Now wipe that egg off your face.


    LMAO
    Did I hear your mom calling you to dinner?

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    on a side note that is off topic since you said you researched the McDs trail. Wasnt there a loop hole in that case that proved negligence?

    I HEARD that theres a standard for the temp of coffee, and then McDs had there own ISO procedures for the temp of coffee and it was found that the temp greatly exceed that and even exceeded its days later when checked. Is that true or some internet BS.
    They had set the temp of coffee to be rather high. It's not unprecedented and in fact in many forms of making coffee, the temp they used was the temp suggested for optimal brewing (though at the time McDonald's was still using that crappy coffee and so "optimal" is very subjective).

    The thing that really got the jury going was that they felt that McDonald's was being very dismissive of the temperature problem. There had been reports of burns as well, I forget the number off hand; but this wasn't the only case. McDonald's was questioned about this and they claimed that as a percentage of cups of coffee sold per year, the number of burn victims was essentially zero. This was, in fact, a statistically correct statement; it was several sub-percentages of total coffee sold. But the jury reacted emotionally to the statement rather than logically and heard McDonald's essentially say that all those people were zero. It went into the absurd and overly punitive monetary reward that the jury awarded the plaintiff.
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Did I hear your mom calling you to dinner?
    another failed insult, so lame and predictable. Please I beg you just give us facts and substances instead of your opinion OR simply admit its JUST your opinion and you wont expose yourself so much.
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    They had set the temp of coffee to be rather high. It's not unprecedented and in fact in many forms of making coffee, the temp they used was the temp suggested for optimal brewing (though at the time McDonald's was still using that crappy coffee and so "optimal" is very subjective).

    The thing that really got the jury going was that they felt that McDonald's was being very dismissive of the temperature problem. There had been reports of burns as well, I forget the number off hand; but this wasn't the only case. McDonald's was questioned about this and they claimed that as a percentage of cups of coffee sold per year, the number of burn victims was essentially zero. This was, in fact, a statistically correct statement; it was several sub-percentages of total coffee sold. But the jury reacted emotionally to the statement rather than logically and heard McDonald's essentially say that all those people were zero. It went into the absurd and overly punitive monetary reward that the jury awarded the plaintiff.
    The small number of previous complaints, some of which involved third degree burns such as occurred in the instant case, was 700.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth
    - Murder is the intentional killing of another human being, absent some kind of defense. Self defense is the only defense at issue in this case. It follows that if these guys do not have a valid argument for self defense, they can and should be indicted for (and probably found guilty of) murder.
    Then yes, by this definition (which I don't agree with), it'd be murder. Technically they fit the motive-opportunity-intent criteria based on what was said earlier. Having said that, while a murder typically has those 3 elements, having those 3 elements does not make it murder necessarily. The reason they had 2 of the 3 is because they were unwillingly dragged into a potential life-or-death situation with myriad elements and variables. This is also why I don't fully buy self-defense. In situations like this, you can have a handbook, plans, designations, whatever...when it's crunch time, all rules are off. Patton said, "A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan next week". I'm just speaking for me. The only time I do not feel threatened is when I see them completely off my property, running like little girls. Hiding behind a building, also on my property, is not threat elimination in my book. If this makes me "liable", so be it. Maybe it's what we need to rethink some policies going now.

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