Page 58 of 111 FirstFirst ... 848565758596068108 ... LastLast
Results 571 to 580 of 1109

Thread: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

  1. #571
    Guru
    Aderleth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    04-08-16 @ 06:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,294

    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, they found that the defendants were on some level liable for the death. Civil courts can only decide liability, not criminality of act.
    Juries, whether civil or criminal, are finders of fact. What I was pointing out is that the civil jury reached factual conclusions consistent with both civil liability in a wrongful death suit, and a murder conviction (b/c absence of self-defense). So you are absolutely wrong in saying that the civil jury didn't (or perhaps couldn't) have reached the factual conclusions I listed.

  2. #572
    Farts in Elevators
    OscarB63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Last Seen
    09-06-14 @ 07:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,526

    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    In part it was your overbearingly ignorant replies that gave me some indication that you thought that this was a dead letter as far as criminal prosecution goes.
    ah, so just llike everything else you've posted here...it is strictly your opinion and not based on any actual facts. got it
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  3. #573
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Theoretical Physics Lab
    Last Seen
    01-06-15 @ 11:06 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    25,120

    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth
    Because in a normal trial (either civil or criminal) typically you have a prosecutor/plaintiff's lawyer making the case for the party that has been allegedly wronged, and you have a defense attorney making the case in favor of the defendant. The jury, therefore, hears two sides of the story, and all the available evidence, whether it's in favor of the defendant, or works against him.

    By contrast, in a grand jury, the only people present are the prosecutor and the jury. The jury just hears the prosecutor's case. They do not hear any of the defense's arguments, do not see evidence brought by the defendant, etc. In a nutshell, they're hearing a one-sided version of events. Obviously a one-sided argument is inherently more favorable to the side that makes the argument.
    Well yeah, but I'm wondering exactly can be said here. Is any man powerful enough to summon his "inner Cochran" enough to make sand castles in the sky like this? Other than to point at the toddler girl and constantly shout, "they killed her daddy!" over and over, what the hell can they say? It almost seems like the defense could've walked into the room, clothes soaked through with blood, carrying sawed-off shotguns and left free and clear.

  4. #574
    I'm kind of a big deal

    AGENT J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,822

    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    In part it was your overbearingly ignorant replies that gave me some indication that you thought that this was a dead letter as far as criminal prosecution goes.
    translation: you GUESS and ASSUMED WRONG AGAIN
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
    Make America Great Again!
    Pro-Equal Rights / Pro-Gun Rights / Pro-Human Rights / Pro-Choice

  5. #575
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    ah, so just llike everything else you've posted here...it is strictly your opinion and not based on any actual facts. got it
    In this case it was my informed opinion, yes. Clearly that is your uninformed opinion.

  6. #576
    I'm kind of a big deal

    AGENT J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,822

    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    ah, so just llike everything else you've posted here...it is strictly your opinion and not based on any actual facts. got it
    yep that about sums it up to anybody that knows how to scroll back through the pages of this thread.
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
    Make America Great Again!
    Pro-Equal Rights / Pro-Gun Rights / Pro-Human Rights / Pro-Choice

  7. #577
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You realize that criminal juries go through the same process, right?

    And FYI, you might want to do a little research before you assume that the McDonalds jury was off its rocker.
    yes, I think it's an overall problem with how we select juries today. It's too engineered.

    And FYI, I did research the McDonald's trial; the jury was off its rocker to award that much. Your smarmy isn't that good, you should either get better at it or stop trying to use it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #578
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    translation: you GUESS and ASSUMED WRONG AGAIN
    Just trying to be helpful by pointing out a FACT that y'all may or may not have been aware of. I'm sure you all knew it already.

  9. #579
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    Juries, whether civil or criminal, are finders of fact. What I was pointing out is that the civil jury reached factual conclusions consistent with both civil liability in a wrongful death suit, and a murder conviction (b/c absence of self-defense). So you are absolutely wrong in saying that the civil jury didn't (or perhaps couldn't) have reached the factual conclusions I listed.
    Juries have become the lowest common denominator thanks to the engineering of lawyers. They were supposed to be intelligent and rational. I am not wrong in what I said, however. Civil courts CANNOT RULE ON CRIMINALITY OF ACT. They only judge liability.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #580
    Guru
    Aderleth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    04-08-16 @ 06:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,294

    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Well yeah, but I'm wondering exactly can be said here. Is any man powerful enough to summon his "inner Cochran" enough to make sand castles in the sky like this? Other than to point at the toddler girl and constantly shout, "they killed her daddy!" over and over, what the hell can they say? It almost seems like the defense could've walked into the room, clothes soaked through with blood, carrying sawed-off shotguns and left free and clear.
    I'll break this down for you. You could also refer back a few pages where I quoted the statute in Colorado that relates to self defense. Let's start from the beginning:

    - Murder is the intentional killing of another human being, absent some kind of defense. Self defense is the only defense at issue in this case. It follows that if these guys do not have a valid argument for self defense, they can and should be indicted for (and probably found guilty of) murder.

    -In Colorado, you can generally use reasonable force to protect yourself, others, or property. However, you can only use deadly force to protect either yourself or another (NOT property) from serious, imminent bodily harm or death, and you can only use deadly force if lesser force would not save you from death/serious bodily harm.

    The three defendants were under no threat of serious bodily harm or death. They fired repeatedly at two men who were not threatening them (although the men were threatening the business owners' property). As you can plainly see, the actions of these guys do not meet the standards for self defense using deadly force in the state of Colorado.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •