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Thread: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    eminent? ???

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Which is the precise reason as to why we have jury of peers to begin with.
    Actually we have a jury of our peers because the fear is that another group might not apply the law. We don't have a jury of our peers because we want them to bond with the defendant and not apply the law.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Or the one who makes the first aggressive move. Which in this case would be the thief, as he was the first individual to violate rights and was the initiator of the scenario which led to his death.
    It is against the law to be a vigilante. It appears they vigilantes were waiting for the thief, so that means they were there as vigilantes first, and they made the first agressive move first, as they killed him before he was able to steal.

    Granted that if they would have called police and the police ended up shooting him, it would have been okay - those are our laws, you don't have to like them but should obey them.



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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    the prosecutor couldn't win the case, that doesn't mean they didn't commit a crime, it means they weren't CHARGED with a crime.
    LMAO
    so you are GUESSING and CAN NOT PROVE they are guilty of murder?
    funny, why couldnt the prosecutor win the case? is it because theres no enough evidence to support such a charge?
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    the prosecutor couldn't win the case, that doesn't mean they didn't commit a crime, it means they weren't CHARGED with a crime.
    innocent until proven guilty? anyone?
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Actually we have a jury of our peers because the fear is that another group might not apply the law. We don't have a jury of our peers because we want them to bond with the defendant and not apply the law.
    Jury by peers is to be the ultimate check on government power. Government can pass all the laws they want, but if the jury of peers does not agree with the law, they do not give a guilty verdict. Jury nullification is one of the MOST important duties of a jury.
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    correct. so, under the law, they did not commit any crime
    Not according to one grand jury, no. According to the civil jury they did.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    It also doesn't matter one iota to me who is a lawyer and who is not. The "law" was upheld in criminal court in which they were acquitted. Unfortunately, civil court lawyers are emotional predators who create sympathy for those who deserve none, and are rewarded by a faulty system designed to reward based on emotion and subjectivity.
    There was no court, and no acquittal. There was a grand jury proceeding (which is emphatically not a trial) at which the grand jury chose not to indict. I'm going to say this one more time:

    The grand jury result and the civil jury result - which used the same standard of evidence - reached inconsistent conclusions. And the grand jury was not exposed to the defendant's side of the story. This means that the civil jury chose to find the defendants guilty based on having information more favorable to the defendants, whereas the grand jury chose not to indict based solely on the information most favorable to the prosecution. This doesn't make any sense, and it suggests that either the prosecutor at the grand jury screwed up, or that jury refused to apply the law to the facts, as is their duty.

    Because these two results are totally inconsistent with one another, saying "well the jury didn't find them guilty so they aren't murderers" isn't really an argument. What makes quite a lot more sense is to actually look at the facts available to us, and compare them to the statutes at issue (i.e. murder and self-defense). If you do so honestly, you'll find that these guys intentionally killed another human being without a valid basis for self defense.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    It is against the law to be a vigilante. It appears they vigilantes were waiting for the thief, so that means they were there as vigilantes first, and they made the first agressive move first, as they killed him before he was able to steal.

    Granted that if they would have called police and the police ended up shooting him, it would have been okay - those are our laws, you don't have to like them but should obey them.
    how is it an aggressive move to be on your own property?
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    What I'm saying is that I consider the letter of the law less important than justice. In this case, if I were a juror, there is no way I would have convicted these men of murder (and notice, they're weren't), nor awarded the family of the scumbag any money... because IMHO it is common sense, practically a law of nature, that when you go out ARMED to steal from another man, you're asking for it... and if you "get it", I'm not going to be sympathetic.

    I sympathize with the biz owners. They've had repeated thefts from the place where they make their livelihoods, and the cops have neither stopped it nor made arrests. Did they exceed the letter of the law in their response? Yes they did. Do I give a ****? Not so much. Scratch one scumbag, and maybe a few others will think twice about that crap.


    Some of you probably don't know how this stuff goes.... lemme 'splain, Lucy:

    Some idiot gets hooked on Meth. When his habit grows to the point that he can't support it (and has probably lost his job, if any) he starts stealing from his family, his relatives, and his neighbors' yards. The family begs and pleads with him to get straight... maybe he checks into a 12-step place for 28 days if he can get gov't funding for the stay... usually he's back on Meth within a month after getting out.

    Eventually his family gets fed up and either gives him the boot or tells him he's gone the next time he steals from them or the neighbors, so he broadens his horizons and starts stealing from strangers. He starts carrying a knife or a gun, to "defend himself" from those who might object to his thefts.... you know, the innocent property owners.

    He gets arrested now and then... most of the time he gets probation, or a few weeks in the pen, but nothing major. 90% of the crap he does, he gets away with.

    As he gets away with more and more, he gets bolder and bolder. Also, as the Meth works its magic on his brain, he gets dumber and dumber and less able to judge things like the implications and consequences of his actions.

    Couldn't he get clean and go straight? Maybe... a few do, most do NOT. More likely he keeps going until he either dies of an overdose one day, or one of his associates kills him over money or drugs.... OR he finally runs into a combative homeowner one midnight burglary and either commits 1st Degree Murder or gets himself killed.

    That's the typical "arc" of this kind of scumbag. I've seen it so many times I can predict it better than a professional gambler.

    You should see what kids who grow up with these idiots as parents end up like. Many of them grow up believing its fine to take drugs and steal, 'cuz that's what Daddy always did, and those who have anything "owe it to them" because they "need" it.

    Maybe the family of the dead drug addict thief ought to pay the business owners instead, for giving their granddaughter a chance to grow up and be something other than another scumbag.

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