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Thread: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Apparently. But people have been known to beat drug addictions ... provided they haven't been shot through the heart first.
    yeah. meth heads turn their lives around every day
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    It is illegal in the jurisdiction in which this occurred to use lethal force to defend property,
    What law says this?

    and as I've pointed out numerous times, they had no valid reason to believe they were under threat of a deadly assault.
    That is your opinion that they had no reason to believe they under thread of deadly assault. You do not know what kind of threat a trespasser poses.

    In fact, by their own admission (according to the article) they made up their mind to shoot whoever the next intruder was well in advance of that intruder actually being shot.
    I am pretty sure most victims of a lot burglaries make that decision to arm themselves because you do not know what kind of harm the intruder intends to do you. That intruder may not want to leave witnesses so he may shoot,stab or use some other method to kill you.That intruder may be horney and decide to rape you. That intruder may decided that he is going to just beat the hell out of you for fun.

    As I asked you to do before, look at the facts that we have available, and compare them to the statutory definition of self-defense. Their actions do not comport with that definition. Intentionally killing a human being absent some valid defense (such as self defense) is murder. Ergo they committed murder.
    They are not murderers.What they did was not murder.If what they did was murder, they would have been charged with murder, went to trial and sentence upon a guilty conviction. Are you trying to say that the DA,or who ever is going to ignore a confession,physical evidence and a motive if what these men did was murder or even illegal?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    My guess is that the prosector wasn't too interested in trying the killer and therefore didn't put on a particularly inspired presentation to the jury. After all, if he had really wanted to charge the killer he could have requested a preliminary hearing before a judge rather than going to the grand jury. It's far more likely that a judge would have found probable cause to indict.
    again...that's just your opinion
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  4. #444
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    They weren't indicted by the grand jury. Not the same thing. Also a somewhat strange thing in this context, because a petite jury did find them guilty using the same standard of evidence, and after weighing the evidence in their favor (which the grand jury did not and could not do). In other words the jury with access to the evidence most favorable to the murderers held them liable, whereas the jury (the grand jury) that had access only to the evidence against them chose not to indict. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
    translation: they didnt have enough to go to court with IE NO MURDERERS lol




    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    Their subjective belief is not relevant to the legal standard for self defense. Take a look at any textbook on criminal law and you'll find that I'm right.
    I dont have to look it up because I already know you are wrong and the fact is it does.
    Because circumstance MATTERS and what they feel/know may very well be relevant

    What they think matters
    police can disagree and charge them
    the a jury either agrees with what they though or doesnt and then they get charged or not

    just how it works sorry

    "legal standard" is based on circumstance
    circumstance may very well be how the subject felt :shurg:
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    fortunately for them, the facts and the jury were at odds with your opinion
    Except that that's not exactly true. Remember, there were two juries: the grand jury and the petit jury. Both of them used the same standard of proof (preponderance of the evidence). Grand juries only hear the evidence from the prosecution, i.e. the evidence least favorable to the defendants. The petit jury hears all of that evidence, plus all of the evidence in favor of the defendants.

    The grand jury chose not to indict, based on the case least favorable to the defendants, whereas the petit jury held them liable, after weighing the aforementioned unfavorable evidence against the evidence in their favor. These two verdicts, taken together, don't make a lot of sense.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    again...that's just your opinion
    Of course.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post

    I dont have to look it up because I already know you are wrong and the fact is it does.
    Because circumstance MATTERS and what they feel/know may very well be relevant
    Translation: "Don't bother me with the facts, I've already made up my mind."

    Word of advice - don't go to law school. You'd get your ass handed to you with that kind of attitude.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    Except that that's not exactly true. Remember, there were two juries: the grand jury and the petit jury. Both of them used the same standard of proof (preponderance of the evidence). Grand juries only hear the evidence from the prosecution, i.e. the evidence least favorable to the defendants. The petit jury hears all of that evidence, plus all of the evidence in favor of the defendants.

    The grand jury chose not to indict, based on the case least favorable to the defendants, whereas the petit jury held them liable, after weighing the aforementioned unfavorable evidence against the evidence in their favor. These two verdicts, taken together, don't make a lot of sense.
    Hence my suggestion that the prosecutor, unlike the plaintiffs' attorney, wasn't particularly diligent in making his case.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Hence my suggestion that the prosecutor, unlike the plaintiffs' attorney, wasn't particularly diligent in making his case.
    I think that's possible. The other possibility (as I think we discussed) is jury nullification.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    Translation: "Don't bother me with the facts, I've already made up my mind."

    Word of advice - don't go to law school. You'd get your ass handed to you with that kind of attitude.
    LMAO nice try but you are still wrong if you are insisting that what they felt doesn't matter at all.
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