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Thread: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

  1. #401
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Not in a world that favored law, order, and prosperity. No, we have to live in a world where criminals are given more rights than they deserve. If Plato were alive to see this, he'd vomit in disgust.
    Vigilante justice does not favor law and order. Death is not the appropriate punishment for petty theft -- even for the Taliban.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    but that has not been your arguement. you've been bleating on and on about how the "victim" wasn't a threat, etc. etc. etc. so, yes, you have been defending him
    I'd like to see where I actually used that phrase. Please point it out for me.

    I've been pointing out that there was no valid basis for a self defense argument. Put another way, the three guys had no actual basis for believing that they were being threatened with deadly force.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Abortionist in abortion debates point out that if it is legal to kill someone then it is not murder if it is illegal to kill someone then it is murder. Murder is basically the unlawful killing of another person under circumstances defined by the law. If what these men did was murder then they would have been tried in court, convicted and currently serving time behind bars.



    - FindLaw
    : the crime of unlawfully and unjustifiably killing another under circumstances defined by statute (as with premeditation)
    If gangbanger B shoots and kills gangbanger B in cold blood, he runs away, and the case is never solved, is he any less a murderer? Put another way, has he met the statutory requirements for murder even though the case never went to trial? Yes.

    That's also apparently what happened here, based on the information we have available.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT
    Vigilante justice does not favor law and order. Death is not the appropriate punishment for petty theft -- even for the Taliban.
    Sorry, not buying the vigilante argument. Which do you think is more likely - that the burglar was caught breaking in to what had to be the world's largest car sales lot if he tried to get away (off the property) and couldn't because a bunch of owners were staking out the property every night in the outside chance that someone may come by to steal a car someday...or that they were caught unaware that a meth-induced scumbag tried to commit grand theft auto carrying multiple knives he would have no qualms about using if he had to?

    Actually, scratch that - I'm sure you think you know which one is more likely.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    material possessions are not worth a life. theirs or mine.

    they can have them.
    My material posessions are worth a hell of a lot more to me than the life of some thieving, drug addled scumbag. We as a society believe people have the right to benefit from the fruits of their labor, it only goes to follow that we should have the right to defend the fruits of our labor from shiftless scumbags who want steal from us rather than earn their own fruits. The law is wrong here. Property owners should be given a very wide latitude in defending what is theirs from thieves.

    These men should have been given a medal for creating a world with one less leech who preys on those who actually contribute to society.
    Last edited by Psychoclown; 08-30-11 at 03:11 PM.
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Sorry, not buying the vigilante argument. Which do you think is more likely - that the burglar was caught breaking in to what had to be the world's largest car sales lot if he tried to get away (off the property) and couldn't because a bunch of owners were staking out the property every night in the outside chance that someone may come by to steal a car someday...or that they were caught unaware that a meth-induced scumbag tried to commit grand theft auto carrying multiple knives he would have no qualms about using if he had to?

    Actually, scratch that - I'm sure you think you know which one is more likely.
    I was actually responding to the post where you said you would shoot someone if you caught them breaking into your car.

    As for the actual case, we don't really have to guess. The defendants told the police that they were going to shoot anyone who they caught stealing a week before they shot the guy.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    If gangbanger B shoots and kills gangbanger B in cold blood, he runs away, and the case is never solved, is he any less a murderer? Put another way, has he met the statutory requirements for murder even though the case never went to trial? Yes.

    That's also apparently what happened here, based on the information we have available.
    more blatant dishonesty seems to be your MO. LMAO
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    If gangbanger B shoots and kills gangbanger B in cold blood, he runs away, and the case is never solved, is he any less a murderer? Put another way, has he met the statutory requirements for murder even though the case never went to trial? Yes.

    That's also apparently what happened here, based on the information we have available.

    So you are saying these shop owners are on the run from the law? The police know who the shop owners are and where they live and work, they have a confession that one of the shop owners shot the scumbag, they evidence they shot the scumbag as well as motive. These men did not escape anything and they are not on the run. Do you know why they were not charged with murder even though there is evidence,confession and motive they shot the scumbag? It is because they did not murder anyone because murder is the crime of unlawfully and unjustifiably killing another under circumstances defined by statute (as with premeditation). This definition does not have **** to do with your comparison of law abiding shop owners defending their property to gang banging scumbags shooting each other.It is legal to use lethal force to defend yourself,others and property. Since it is legal to those things it is not murder. Maybe if this was some scumbag sympathizing country like the UK where illegal to use lethal force to defend yourself,others and property then it would be illegal to use lethal force to defend yourself,others and your property.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Rehash of thread

    FACTS:
    there are NO murders in this story
    Criminal law sided with the owners
    Civil outcome sided with the family in part.
    Vast MAJORITY AGREES with the criminal law
    VAST MAJORITY DISAGREES with the civil "out come"

    all except ONE person thinks that there is a little girl with out a father and its MORE the store owners fault than the drug addicted thief who broke into private property while high and armed and got himself shot LMAO
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    So you are saying these shop owners are on the run from the law? The police know who the shop owners are and where they live and work, they have a confession that one of the shop owners shot the scumbag, they evidence they shot the scumbag as well as motive. These men did not escape anything and they are not on the run. Do you know why they were not charged with murder even though there is evidence,confession and motive they shot the scumbag? It is because they did not murder anyone because murder is the crime of unlawfully and unjustifiably killing another under circumstances defined by statute (as with premeditation). This definition does not have **** to do with your comparison of law abiding shop owners defending their property to gang banging scumbags shooting each other.It is legal to use lethal force to defend yourself,others and property. Since it is legal to those things it is not murder. Maybe if this was some scumbag sympathizing country like the UK where illegal to use lethal force to defend yourself,others and property then it would be illegal to use lethal force to defend yourself,others and your property.
    It is illegal in the jurisdiction in which this occurred to use lethal force to defend property, and as I've pointed out numerous times, they had no valid reason to believe they were under threat of a deadly assault. In fact, by their own admission (according to the article) they made up their mind to shoot whoever the next intruder was well in advance of that intruder actually being shot.

    As I asked you to do before, look at the facts that we have available, and compare them to the statutory definition of self-defense. Their actions do not comport with that definition. Intentionally killing a human being absent some valid defense (such as self defense) is murder. Ergo they committed murder.

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