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Thread: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Umm, if it's just a thought running through my head, no. If I run across the street and hide behind a car, no. OTOH, if I run towards you aggressively then it would be reasonable for you to defend yourself.
    If you're a meth-head then the thoughts running through your head probably are dangerous. Probabilistically speaking, there's a heck of a lot greater chance that you're going to turn your thought of attacking into reality than an individual who is clean.
    "With me everything turns into mathematics."
    "It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well."
    "It is truth very certain that, when it is not in one's power to determine what is true, we ought to follow what is more probable." -- Rene Descartes

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    The fact that people are debating whether this killing was a crime or not, prompts the comment "Only in America!"

    Under British law, all three men would have been indicted on charges of murder, and accomplice to murder. Under Australian and New Zealand, and possibly Canadian, law the same thing would have happened. And that is what should have happened, in any civilised jurisdiction, to the three men concerned.

    The facts of the matter are - they lay in wait armed, and they shot someone dead who was hiding in a shed (and thereby posed no threat to any of them). They should have gone to prison for life. Yours is a seriously flawed justice system.
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The assumption is that just because the guy had knives on him, he planned on using them. But there's no evidence that he intended to use them, AFAIK. Nor is there any evidence, AFAIK, that the shooters even knew he was carrying knives.
    ...and when your date spots the condom in your wallet you can try to convince her there is no evidence that you were planning to get into her pants.
    "With me everything turns into mathematics."
    "It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well."
    "It is truth very certain that, when it is not in one's power to determine what is true, we ought to follow what is more probable." -- Rene Descartes

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    This post is horrible in about a dozen different ways and I bet you're not aware of any of them.
    Which is better, no father or an alcoholic father who molests his daughter? I rest my case.
    "With me everything turns into mathematics."
    "It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well."
    "It is truth very certain that, when it is not in one's power to determine what is true, we ought to follow what is more probable." -- Rene Descartes

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    Suspected burglar? Trapped? You make it seem like this guy was the victim. How about the people he hurt with his drug habit? What about the fact that he committed burglary while armed with several knives?

    I really can't relate to this train of thought, that somehow the victim of a crime must wait to be attacked and even run away from a burglar. It's truly ridiculous.
    Burglary is not a capital offense. Let me try to pound that into your brain. The guy WAS the victim. They murdered him... without a trial, without due process... just murdered him. The only reason they knew he had a pocket knife was that they took it out of his corpse's pocket. This dead burglar had no history of violence. He was a drug addict trying to steal car parts for dope. Dispicable, yes. An excuse for cold-blooded murder? No. He was trapped in a shed in an auto dealership, with men pointing guns at the door. All they had to do was call the police, but they murdered him instead.

    Yeah, he was a junkie. He had a kid. Perhaps, if he'd cooled his heels in prison for a couple of years, kicked the habit and gone into rehab, he might have turned out to be a good father to his child someday... only we will never know because he didn't get a second chance. He... was... murdered.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Burglary is not a capital offense. Let me try to pound that into your brain. The guy WAS the victim. They murdered him... without a trial, without due process... just murdered him. The only reason they knew he had a pocket knife was that they took it out of his corpse's pocket. This dead burglar had no history of violence. He was a drug addict trying to steal car parts for dope. Dispicable, yes. An excuse for cold-blooded murder? No. He was trapped in a shed in an auto dealership, with men pointing guns at the door. All they had to do was call the police, but they murdered him instead.

    Yeah, he was a junkie. He had a kid. Perhaps, if he'd cooled his heels in prison for a couple of years, kicked the habit and gone into rehab, he might have turned out to be a good father to his child someday... only we will never know because he didn't get a second chance. He... was... murdered.
    But ... but ... you don't know that! Maybe he was in the shed McGyvering together a predator drone that he was going to use to take them out ... and ... and ... maybe the elementary school down the street!!!

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The burden of proof is much higher in criminal court than in civil court. It is quite possible that there was not enough evidence to gain a murder conviction; which could be why the grand jury didn't push for criminal trial.
    Grand Juries don't determine guilt or innocence. They decide whether or not to take a case to trial at all, and the standard of proof is the same as with a civil suit. The standard a grand jury uses is preponderance of the evidence, and they're basing this analysis solely on the evidence of the prosecutor. There is no defense attorney in a Grand Jury.

    Given that a civil jury did find the defendant's guilty in a civil suit, which, again, has someone actually defending the accused, one has to wonder what the hell was going on with the Grand Jury.
    Last edited by Aderleth; 08-30-11 at 03:50 AM.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Didn't President Obama just authorize the commission of murder against Al Queda's #2. The man had no part in planning or executing 9/11. The man wasn't tried before a court for any alleged crimes he may have committed since 9/11. The man was killed acting in self-defense. There was no Constitutional Due Process. Obama just ordered him to be executed by launching a missile at his car/house.
    I also have issues with that, but it's not the topic of this thread.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    The ability of some to defend to serial thieves.... Oh, really...
    Who is defending serial thieves?

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    The Laws on the use of deadly force are pretty consistent and they clearly say you may use deadly force only when there is a perception that you or another is in eminent threat of harm. That does not extend to any place outside of the home.

    If you break into my car I can't shoot you. But if you enter my home your a dead person and I am within my right the feel that My life or anyone who is in my home is in danger.

    When I got my Concealed Carry Permit this was rule number 1, I must be in eminent danger of loss of life, to use deadly force. The same applies to Police as well.

    Killing to stop the theft of a stereo of other item in a car does not justify a killing.

    Sorry if you are a Conservative that thinks it's okay but the Laws say no it's not.

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