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Thread: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    [QUOTE=Aderleth;1059824241]

    You would be sure they are criminals if you actually applied the law (which I've posted on this thread) to the facts (also available on this thread). They were not criminally charged because the grand jury overrode the prosecutor.
    My suspicion is that this is due to jury nullification.
    Sounds to me like the prosecutor didn't have much of a case if he couldn't even get a grand jury to agree to the charges.

    If you disagree, look through this thread before commenting further. I'm not going to re-hash points that I've made dozens of times in this thread. And yes, you do have the right to defend yourself and your property. Under Colorado law, you do not have the right to defend your property using deadly force, and self-defense was not at issue here. Again, if you disagree, look at the law and tell me why, specifically, you believe these guys did not violate it. Appeals to authority (i.e. the grand jury) will be ignored.
    Two words: Castle Doctrine

    1. Was the deceased making (or have made) an attempt to unlawfully and/or forcibly enter an occupied residence, business or vehicle?

    YES

    2. Was the deceased acting illegally?

    YES

    3. Was it reasonable for defendant to expect the deceased to inflict serious bodily harm or death upon him?

    YES

    4. Was it reasonable for the defendant to believe that the deceased intended to commit some other felony, such as arson or burglary?

    YES

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    [QUOTE=Sig;1059824278]
    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post



    Sounds to me like the prosecutor didn't have much of a case if he couldn't even get a grand jury to agree to the charges.



    Two words: Castle Doctrine

    1. Was the deceased making (or have made) an attempt to unlawfully and/or forcibly enter an occupied residence, business or vehicle?

    YES

    2. Was the deceased acting illegally?

    YES

    3. Was it reasonable for defendant to expect the deceased to inflict serious bodily harm or death upon him?

    YES

    4. Was it reasonable for the defendant to believe that the deceased intended to commit some other felony, such as arson or burglary?

    YES
    Setting aside, for the moment, the fact that you're making some poor assumptions here, you're also not applying Colorado law. Why don't you look that up (or find it in this thread) and try again? I'll be going away for several hours, so you've got plenty of time to do some actual research to form your argument.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    [QUOTE=Aderleth;1059824290]
    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post

    Setting aside, for the moment, the fact that you're making some poor assumptions here, you're also not applying Colorado law. Why don't you look that up (or find it in this thread) and try again? I'll be going away for several hours, so you've got plenty of time to do some actual research to form your argument.
    so what kind of law do you practice? curious I am



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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post

    It is not murder to use lethal force to defend yourself and property against burglars especially armed burglars.If what the property owner did was murder then he would be in prison right now.



    Jury sides with burglar's family in 2009 shooting death at auto lot | jury, burglar, lot - Colorado Springs Gazette, CO
    Police said in a 145-page investigative report that the intruder had knives in his pockets and one strapped to his ankle

    Read more: Jury sides with burglar's family in 2009 shooting death at auto lot | jury, burglar, lot - Colorado Springs Gazette, CO
    Are there any states where it's legal to use lethal for to defend your property?

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Are there any states where it's legal to use lethal for to defend your property?
    Yes.

    Each state differs with respect to the specific instances in which the Castle Doctrine can be invoked, and what degree of retreat or non-deadly resistance (if any) is required before deadly force can be used.

    In general, (one) or a variety of conditions must be met before a person can legally use the Castle Doctrine:

    As of the 28th of May, 2010, 31 States have some form of Castle Doctrine and/or Stand Your Ground law. Alabama,[9] Alaska, Arizona, California, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island,[10] South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah,[11] West Virginia and Wyoming have adopted Castle Doctrine statutes, and other states (Montana, Nebraska,[12] New Hampshire, and Washington) are currently considering "Stand Your Ground" laws of their own.[

    These state use differing forms of Castle Law:

    An intruder must be making (or have made) an attempt to unlawfully and/or forcibly enter an occupied residence, business or vehicle.
    The intruder must be acting illegally—e.g. the Castle Doctrine does not give the right to attack officers of the law acting in the course of their legal duties
    The occupant(s) of the home must reasonably believe that the intruder intends to inflict serious bodily harm or death upon an occupant of the home
    The occupant(s) of the home must reasonably believe that the intruder intends to commit some other felony, such as arson or burglary
    The occupant(s) of the home must not have provoked or instigated an intrusion, or provoked or instigated an intruder to threaten or use deadly force
    The occupant(s) of the home may be required to attempt to exit the house or otherwise retreat (this is called the "Duty to retreat" and most self-defense statutes referred to as examples of "Castle Doctrine" expressly state that the homeowner has no such duty)
    per Wikipedia

    Read about individual states here
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenoa View Post
    Yes.

    Each state differs with respect to the specific instances in which the Castle Doctrine can be invoked, and what degree of retreat or non-deadly resistance (if any) is required before deadly force can be used.

    In general, (one) or a variety of conditions must be met before a person can legally use the Castle Doctrine:

    As of the 28th of May, 2010, 31 States have some form of Castle Doctrine and/or Stand Your Ground law. Alabama,[9] Alaska, Arizona, California, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island,[10] South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah,[11] West Virginia and Wyoming have adopted Castle Doctrine statutes, and other states (Montana, Nebraska,[12] New Hampshire, and Washington) are currently considering "Stand Your Ground" laws of their own.[

    These state use differing forms of Castle Law:

    An intruder must be making (or have made) an attempt to unlawfully and/or forcibly enter an occupied residence, business or vehicle.
    The intruder must be acting illegally—e.g. the Castle Doctrine does not give the right to attack officers of the law acting in the course of their legal duties
    The occupant(s) of the home must reasonably believe that the intruder intends to inflict serious bodily harm or death upon an occupant of the home
    The occupant(s) of the home must reasonably believe that the intruder intends to commit some other felony, such as arson or burglary
    The occupant(s) of the home must not have provoked or instigated an intrusion, or provoked or instigated an intruder to threaten or use deadly force
    The occupant(s) of the home may be required to attempt to exit the house or otherwise retreat (this is called the "Duty to retreat" and most self-defense statutes referred to as examples of "Castle Doctrine" expressly state that the homeowner has no such duty)
    per Wikipedia

    Read about individual states here
    It seems that it's more than just protecting your property, the home owner has to also believe they could be harmed by the intrusion. Also, those are for protecting your home. Not sure how that would apply to one's business during off hours when the business owner remains on property with the hopes of ambushing an intruder.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    Neither is yours. Unfortunately for you, my opinion is backed up by facts, and supported by the law. Yours isn't. Go ahead. Prove me wrong.
    the property owners are not in jail. proof that my opinion, in this case, is more accurate than yours. go matlock
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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    the property owners are not in jail. proof that my opinion, in this case, is more accurate than yours. go matlock
    And it's only your OPINION that that constitutes proof of anything.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Are there any states where it's legal to use lethal for to defend your property?
    Yes. But Colorado isn't one of them.

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    Re: Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post

    Setting aside, for the moment, the fact that you're making some poor assumptions here, you're also not applying Colorado law. Why don't you look that up (or find it in this thread) and try again? I'll be going away for several hours, so you've got plenty of time to do some actual research to form your argument.
    Frankly, I am not interested in Colorado law. This is much less a legal debate than it is a philosophical one. Try to remember that.

    If Colorado law is in conflict with my opinion on the matter, then in my opinion, Colorado law is in error and needs to be amended.
    Last edited by Sig; 09-26-11 at 08:18 AM.

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