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Thread: Senator: F-16 deal with Taiwan might bypass Obama

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    Re: Senator: F-16 deal with Taiwan might bypass Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    This isn't true. Taiwan's defensive capabilities are not insignificant. The body of water sitting between Taiwan and China is also important from a defensive perspective.
    Taiwan would stand no chance against China.

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    Re: Senator: F-16 deal with Taiwan might bypass Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Come on now. China spends about $115 billion a year on defense to Taiwan's $15 billion.
    The Strait is a significant force multiplier...
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    Re: Senator: F-16 deal with Taiwan might bypass Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Taiwan would stand no chance against China.
    But we have to make sure that we can do enough damage against China to ensure they never try to attack us. It would be nice if the United States and Japan were a little firmer in their support of Taiwan than they are.
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    Re: Senator: F-16 deal with Taiwan might bypass Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    China could wipe Taiwan off the map in the blink of an eye. The only reason they haven't is that they know they would have to answer to us. Selling a handful of fighter jets to Taiwan wouldn't change the defense equation one iota. But it might be a political headache.
    "blink of the eye"....is kinda fast, dude

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    Re: Senator: F-16 deal with Taiwan might bypass Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    Incompatible statements bolded.
    There is nothing incompatible about that. Even the outright banning of political parties is considered acceptable in certain Western democracies. While most do not ban secessionist parties, they do engage in many official actions aimed at preventing secessionists from achieving political power.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    And I have explained to you why your assessment is wrong. I prefer to listen to the words of international legal scholars and the customs of international law than an anonymous person on the Internet. I asked you to cite an example of a territorial transfer from one state to another without the benefit of a properly signed, ratified, and executed treaty, and you failed to do that.
    There are scholars and customs on both sides of the issue. What you do not understand is that the territory was clearly agreed, by all parties, to be Chinese territory. Had it not been for the victory of the Chinese Communist Party in the mainland no one would even be raising the issue today because the matter of Taiwan's status would have been considered settled decades ago. All this talk about Taiwan not being Chinese territory is prompted by geopolitics. Reunification of Taiwan with China would be a major improvement in China's strategic position in the region and this would be to the detriment of the imperial interests of the United States. To maintain its control of the region the U.S. sees a need to maintain that illusion of an uncertain status.

    Taiwan has significantly more freedom and democracy than Hong Kong does. Comparing the two is apples and oranges.
    Your problem is you think that somehow being able to vote between party A and party B makes you freer or more democratic. In terms of freedom there is no real difference between Taiwan and Hong Kong. Hong Kong consistently ranks at the top in terms of economic freedom and has been ranked equivalent to Taiwan, Japan, and South Korea in civil liberties. It is only because of the limited extent of representative elections that Hong Kong is ranked below Taiwan.

    There is no chance China would choose to retain Taiwan's current system of openness. It is already well known that Chinese pressure is already resulting in some amounts of self-censorhip among news companies that have connections in China. If you could read Chinese, you might actually know what I am talking about.
    Self-censorship happens everywhere and in Hong Kong it has been overblown by fear-mongers like yourself.

    And your comment that certain parties would be restricted would certainly amount to a MAJOR change in Taiwan's systen and would effectively return Taiwan to the status of being a one-party state.
    No it would not. Were the DPP to end its backing for secession I can see no reason why China would seek to restrict them from power. Hong Kong politicians are allowed to make all sorts of political statements in opposition to China. If the DPP insisted on not changing its policy on that one issue then inevitably another party would emerge to challenge the KMT.

    Taiwan is not Tibet. Taiwan is Taiwan. Chinas has no legal rights in Taiwan. Taiwan is a vibrant democracy of 23 million people and is one of the 20 largest trading nations in the world. China is not moving toward democracy. People have been making these claims for two decades. It isn't happening. Again, if you could actually understand Chinese, you would know this.
    This has nothing to do with what languages a person speaks. You refuse to accept even the slightest positive information about China, but love to gobble up everything negative from the wildest and most baseless conspiracy theories to outright racism. It was nice seeing your admission earlier in the thread that you actually do have an issue with the people of China and not merely the government.
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    Re: Senator: F-16 deal with Taiwan might bypass Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    But we have to make sure that we can do enough damage against China to ensure they never try to attack us. It would be nice if the United States and Japan were a little firmer in their support of Taiwan than they are.
    I certainly agree that Taiwan should make sure it's known that they would do all they could possibly do defensively. I support selling Taiwan the jets. While I do not think China will attack, knowing that Taiwan has legitimate defensive measures certainly does make that even less likely.

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    Re: Senator: F-16 deal with Taiwan might bypass Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    These people seem to forget the amount of commerce that existed between Germany and France at certain points in history...
    Russia and Germany as well.
    Barbarossa was pushed back a couple hours to get the last few trains across the border.

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    Re: Senator: F-16 deal with Taiwan might bypass Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    There is nothing incompatible about that. Even the outright banning of political parties is considered acceptable in certain Western democracies. While most do not ban secessionist parties, they do engage in many official actions aimed at preventing secessionists from achieving political power.
    Why would the Taiwanese want to regress though in terms of freedoms and democracy? What happens elsewhere is irrelevant, it's taiwans status quo that matters and you're observations imply a regression. What does the PRC offer the Taiwanese?

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    Re: Senator: F-16 deal with Taiwan might bypass Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    Why would the Taiwanese want to regress though in terms of freedoms and democracy? What happens elsewhere is irrelevant, it's taiwans status quo that matters and you're observations imply a regression. What does the PRC offer the Taiwanese?
    At some point Taiwan`s economic interests may be with rejoining China. As it stands China is Taiwans most important trading partner currently if I recall correctly. China is giving Taiwan prefential economic treatment in order to get Taiwan further dependant on China
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    Re: Senator: F-16 deal with Taiwan might bypass Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    At some point Taiwan`s economic interests may be with rejoining China. As it stands China is Taiwans most important trading partner currently if I recall correctly. China is giving Taiwan prefential economic treatment in order to get Taiwan further dependant on China
    I was talking purely from a liberty perspective. Reunification offers short term regression with an uncertain future. Even economically, being a small independent nation on the fringe of an ethnically similar great power offers unique benefits (like the lack of cumbersome bureaucratic red tape). If the imperial machinations of big brother are kept in check of course.

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