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Thread: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block

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    Re: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    What some on the GOP want to raise taxes now!! According to a select few that means that those who want to raise taxes are "socialists" igniting "class warfare"!!!! AHHHHHHHHH
    I don't think you understand it quite right. If your decision is that everyone must pay the tax then let's raise the rate on everyone. The objection I have to your arguments is that you want to tax one group of people for he benefit of other people who do not pay the tax.

    That is class warfare. It is Marxist. The more steeply progressive the taxes the better in the Marxist formulation. How much steeper can one make it than some pay none and others pay nearly all?

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    Re: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Yeah, except for GOP candidates like Rick Perry who says that SS is unconstitutional.
    I believe it is extra-constitutional. For the good of the nation it needs to be phased out.

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    Re: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    I don't think you understand it quite right. If your decision is that everyone must pay the tax then let's raise the rate on everyone. The objection I have to your arguments is that you want to tax one group of people for he benefit of other people who do not pay the tax.

    That is class warfare. It is Marxist. The more steeply progressive the taxes the better in the Marxist formulation. How much steeper can one make it than some pay none and others pay nearly all?
    It is pragmatism -- not class warfare. The bottom 50% of the population controls just 2% of the country's wealth. It would be foolish and self defeating to ask those people to shoulder as much of the burden as the top 10% of the population, which controls over 70% of the country's wealth.

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    Re: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    It is pragmatism -- not class warfare. The bottom 50% of the population controls just 2% of the country's wealth. It would be foolish and self defeating to ask those people to shoulder as much of the burden as the top 10% of the population, which controls over 70% of the country's wealth.
    Is it foolish to ask that those 50% pay into the fund for their own social security and medicare benefits? Or are we of the mind that these people should not be responsible for their own retirements and future stability?
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Is it foolish to ask that those 50% pay into the fund for their own social security and medicare benefits? Or are we of the mind that these people should not be responsible for their own retirements and future stability?
    You realize that they do pay into those funds right? Everyone who earns a paycheck pays payroll taxes.

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    Re: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    So you want to control people from being selfish? How about angry people - 10% tax on them too?
    Of course not, but a time out wouldn't hurt them. LOL.
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    Re: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Everybody's swallowing the pill. Did you completely ignore the first part of my post? People making more than 106k are already paying for themselves and a portion of somebody else, in terms of social security. And somebody making the median income, at the standard rate of 6.2% doesn't pay in enough to cover their benefits from 66 until death (assuming average life expectancy).

    I have never said I propose cutting taxes for the wealthy and not for anybody else. Not once. You're making stupid assumptions based on a stupid bias you've developed thanks to political talking points. Think and act for yourself, not for labels. What I do not support are taxes that would put a heavier burden on specific income levels based solely on an arbitrary income (i.e. $250k in every state, county, city, etc, despite standard of living and cost of living variations) in defense of "easing the strain on the middle class", as though punishing success is going to encourage growth in any capacity.

    The "rich" will not likely need social security. The middle class will. And part of the reason they will is because they don't prepare for their own futures. People in America are practically famous for spending everything they earn (and then some) without planning for future needs. And we've been taught that social security will keep us comfy in retirement. This is a program we're expecting to support us, but wait....we want somebody else to pay for that protection? Why do we get to shirk our responsibilities to ourselves simply because we aren't "rich"? What the hell logic is that?
    this post is so completely full of crap. NOBODY has mentioned anyone shirking their responsibility, and i don't know how YOU were raised, but i sure wasn't raised to depend on ss. as far as "punishing success"...THAT'S a trite talking point. the entire point HERE is that the middle class and working poor pays 6.2% on their entire salary, while the wealthy do not. hell, some of the wealthy pay nothing, because this is a payroll tax. so here's the question, at a time when MOST republicans have signed a pledge to RAISE NO TAXES, why do YOU find it perfectly fine that they renege on that pledge? oh, the horror! won't that dampen any recovery we've got going? after all, rasing taxes on the wealthy is a no-no because it hurts the economy, right?

    the middle class is eroding, thanks to people like you who have some unknown reason to "protect" the wealthy. and btw, yes, a person paying into ss for 48 years with an average salary of 25k HAS absolutely pays enough to cover their ss benefits. another point.....since when have TAXES EVER been based on your location's standard of living?
    Last edited by liblady; 08-23-11 at 11:54 AM.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You want the wealthy to be taxed more to pay for social security benefits of the poor? Is that the gist of it? As I understand it now people are currently capped at income levels based primarily on what their level of return of investment is. Someone that makes over...what is it...$104k is taxed the same as someone that makes $500k...because the rate of return will be the same regardless. So you believe that regardless of the capped rate of return, those that make more than $104k should have to pay more into a retirement account that they will never possibly receive a benefit from. Am I tracking you correctly?
    Yes. In fact, I also want to charge SS tax on unearned income such as capital gains. Actually, what I want to do is scrap social security tax and fund social security through (increased) general income taxes. I also want to scrap medicare tax. These separate taxes by the federal government that GOP like to pretend aren't taxes does nothing other than confuse things by creating statistics like 51% of American's don't pay federal income tax, while that's false if you count other taxes based on income by the federal government such as social security and medicare tax.

    As far as it being an investment, social security is a TERRIBLE investment. The rate of return is pathetic. Forcing someone to put a higher percentage of their available savings dollars into social security just seems cruel. What it does (I won't say well) is act as an insurance rather than a retirement system. Disability, lack of planning, stupidity, what have you. At least you have social security.

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    Re: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    It is pragmatism -- not class warfare. The bottom 50% of the population controls just 2% of the country's wealth. It would be foolish and self defeating to ask those people to shoulder as much of the burden as the top 10% of the population, which controls over 70% of the country's wealth.
    Then we are back to class warfare. Easy peasy. It is all you know.

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    Re: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block

    Quote Originally Posted by vvx View Post
    Yes. In fact, I also want to charge SS tax on unearned income such as capital gains. Actually, what I want to do is scrap social security tax and fund social security through (increased) general income taxes. I also want to scrap medicare tax. These separate taxes by the federal government that GOP like to pretend aren't taxes does nothing other than confuse things by creating statistics like 51% of American's don't pay federal income tax, while that's false if you count other taxes based on income by the federal government such as social security and medicare tax.

    As far as it being an investment, social security is a TERRIBLE investment. The rate of return is pathetic. Forcing someone to put a higher percentage of their available savings dollars into social security just seems cruel. What it does (I won't say well) is act as an insurance rather than a retirement system. Disability, lack of planning, stupidity, what have you. At least you have social security.
    Again...I always applaud honesty. As long as people recognize it has nothing to do with fair or fair share and it remains solely in the realm of screw them...make them pay for the poor...well...we will disagree...but I'll at least give you props.

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