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Thread: Fighting Erupts in Tripoli

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    Re: Fighting Erupts in Tripoli

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Wow, some of the posts in this thread are... surprisingly obtuse and revisionistic. First, this is not "America's" war. It's the Libyan rebels' war. America isn't supporting the rebels. NATO is supporting the rebels. The charge to get NATO involved was led by France, Italy and Spain. Europe gets a big hunk of its oil from Libya, after all. America has conducted no trade whatsoever with Libya since the mid-80's. America is, however, a part of NATO, and agreed to lend its aid. This isn't "Obama's war" and it's a pretty damned desperate sign of partisian hackery on those who imply otherwise.

    I'm pretty damned sick of reading all the "America killed Libyan civilians" crap. Were civilians possibly killed by NATO armaments? Yes. Were civilians being slaughtered by the thousands by Khadafi's troops? Most definitely. I hope Khadafi goes down, just like the 3 sons who have already been captured. I hope that the coming power vacuum isn't filled by yet another tyranical dictator. I hope Libyans get the freedoms they are seeking, but if they do, America will have had little to do with it. We didn't bleed for their freedoms. They did.
    NATOs no fly zone was a response to Qudaffi breaking international law by killing his own people. I am having a difficult problem in seeing how this is an American War.

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    Re: Fighting Erupts in Tripoli

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Wow, some of the posts in this thread are... surprisingly obtuse and revisionistic. First, this is not "America's" war. It's the Libyan rebels' war. America isn't supporting the rebels. NATO is supporting the rebels. The charge to get NATO involved was led by France, Italy and Spain. Europe gets a big hunk of its oil from Libya, after all. America has conducted no trade whatsoever with Libya since the mid-80's. America is, however, a part of NATO, and agreed to lend its aid. This isn't "Obama's war" and it's a pretty damned desperate sign of partisian hackery on those who imply otherwise.

    I'm pretty damned sick of reading all the "America killed Libyan civilians" crap. Were civilians possibly killed by NATO armaments? Yes. Were civilians being slaughtered by the thousands by Khadafi's troops? Most definitely. I hope Khadafi goes down, just like the 3 sons who have already been captured. I hope that the coming power vacuum isn't filled by yet another tyranical dictator. I hope Libyans get the freedoms they are seeking, but if they do, America will have had little to do with it. We didn't bleed for their freedoms. They did.
    I agree with a lot of what you said. It's been proven that NATO has killed both civilians and rebels with its armaments (Libya: coalition air strike 'kills seven civilians' - Telegraph) ('Libyan rebels killed in NATO air strike' - Africa - Al Jazeera English).

    Also it doesn't seem that there will be democracy in Libya, at least not right now. Many rebels have terrorist and radical Islamic links (Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-Qaeda links - Telegraph), so I am worried about this greatly.
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    Re: Fighting Erupts in Tripoli

    One thing is certain, and that is that they won't have LESS democracy than they had under Gaddafi.

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    Re: Fighting Erupts in Tripoli

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    NATOs no fly zone was a response to Qudaffi breaking international law by killing his own people. I am having a difficult problem in seeing how this is an American War.
    What makes Gaddafi's actions so much worse than the rebel's actions? People getting killed is what happens during war. That doesn't excuse it, but let's not pretend that this was entirely one-sided. For that matter, NATO killed plenty of Libyans too, despite ostensibly having no stake in the conflict itself...and unlike either Gaddafi OR the rebels, NATO doesn't have the excuse of self-defense.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 08-22-11 at 06:09 PM.
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    Re: Fighting Erupts in Tripoli

    After the bombings and color revolution tried in Iran by the U.S. trying to over turn the govmnt there, Obama the ingrate thinks he has the moral authority to call for Assad to resign.

    Yuppies and their scorched earth policies, what nerve!

    And that Hillary Clinton is a Nazi.

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    Re: Fighting Erupts in Tripoli

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    What makes Gaddafi's actions so much worse than the rebel's actions?
    Gaddafi is a dictator who has prohibited free speech and political opposition. The choice was his. If he had created democratic institutions there would have been no need for violence.

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    Re: Fighting Erupts in Tripoli

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    6 months to violently overthrow a dictator? How many civil wars can you name that went quicker?
    It did drag on longer than it had to had they been helped significantly internationally. The NATO strikes at least were probably important in making a difference in the conflict.

    Quote Originally Posted by jfuh View Post
    I wouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusion that this would lead to a democratic government or necessarily better lives for Libyan people. I agree no one would miss Gaddafi, except for perhaps those who benefited the most under him.
    Libya is still very much tribal, and women are still disproportionately shunned out from society as objects to men's discretion.
    So whether or not this is good news is relative.

    The undeniable case here is that the international coalition was a success - this should be the model of how countries intervene - balancing the military power in favor of popular stance rather than go it alone cowboy silliness.
    I'm so far making that jump that Libya will be pretty democratic. So far the rebels haven't executed the Gaddafi family, which is good, and they have shown their commitment to democratic ideals, the people seem to be educated and a lot of youth seem to be involved. Yeah, international action should take place when there is a popular uprising.

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    Re: Fighting Erupts in Tripoli

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Gaddafi is a dictator who has prohibited free speech and political opposition. The choice was his. If he had created democratic institutions there would have been no need for violence.
    Who elected the rebels again?
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    Re: Fighting Erupts in Tripoli

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    What makes Gaddafi's actions so much worse than the rebel's actions? People getting killed is what happens during war. That doesn't excuse it, but let's not pretend that this was entirely one-sided. For that matter, NATO killed plenty of Libyans too, despite ostensibly having no stake in the conflict itself...and unlike either Gaddafi OR the rebels, NATO doesn't have the excuse of self-defense.
    Actually there is a difference, the rebel forces didn't give Viagra to their soldiers to rape women in the conflict, that was the reports coming out of the region, and also the rebels didn't target civilians intentionally. In fact, the rebels haven't murdered Gaddafi's sons, if it was the other way around for sure the rebels would be killed in an instant.

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    Re: Fighting Erupts in Tripoli

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Who elected the rebels again?
    They elected themselves, which was the only choice Gaddafi gave them.

    What would your suggestion be, assuming that the people of Lebanon opposed Gaddafi's rule? Should they have made a wish and thrown a coin in a fountain?

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