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Thread: Fighting Erupts in Tripoli

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    Re: Fighting Erupts in Tripoli

    Quote Originally Posted by Opteron View Post
    Actually there is a difference, the rebel forces didn't give Viagra to their soldiers to rape women in the conflict, that was the reports coming out of the region,
    Any evidence that it was true? If not, why should I give it any more credence than I give Gaddafi's absurd claim that the rebels were all under the influence of hallucinogens?

    and also the rebels didn't target civilians intentionally.
    Says who? The idea that when Gaddafi's forces killed civilians it was intentional, and when the rebels killed civilians it was accidental, is based on nothing more than your preconceived notion of who the "good guys" and "bad guys" are supposed to be.

    In fact, the rebels haven't murdered Gaddafi's sons, if it was the other way around for sure the rebels would be killed in an instant.
    It's been all of, what, 12 hours since they were captured?
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    Re: Fighting Erupts in Tripoli

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    They elected themselves, which was the only choice Gaddafi gave them.
    Somehow I don't think you would accept "Gaddafi elected himself" as a reason why his regime was legitimate.

    What would your suggestion be, assuming that the people of Lebanon opposed Gaddafi's rule? Should they have made a wish and thrown a coin in a fountain?
    No. They can rebel all they want if they are dissatisfied. But NATO shouldn't have gotten involved and picked sides. We have no stake in this fight, no reason to think we can steer Libya in a positive direction given our atrocious track record of intervention in the Arab world, and no reason to think that dropping bombs on people is "saving lives."
    Last edited by Kandahar; 08-22-11 at 08:53 PM.
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    Re: Fighting Erupts in Tripoli

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Somehow I don't think you would accept "Gaddafi elected himself" as a reason why his regime was legitimate.



    No. They can rebel all they want if they are dissatisfied. But NATO shouldn't have gotten involved and picked sides. We have no stake in this fight, no reason to think we can steer Libya in a positive direction given our atrocious track record of intervention in the Arab world, and no reason to think that dropping bombs on people is "saving lives."
    We have no stake? Gaddafi financed terrorism all over the world, including terrorism against Americans.

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    Re: Fighting Erupts in Tripoli

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    What makes Gaddafi's actions so much worse than the rebel's actions? People getting killed is what happens during war. That doesn't excuse it, but let's not pretend that this was entirely one-sided. For that matter, NATO killed plenty of Libyans too, despite ostensibly having no stake in the conflict itself...and unlike either Gaddafi OR the rebels, NATO doesn't have the excuse of self-defense.
    There wasn't a war at first. Gaddafi simply killed people for protesting, and then murdered people for uprising against his brutal government. He didn't murder his own people in an act of war. It was an act of government coercion and violence. Collateral damage is entirely different from a government actively murdering it's people.

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    Re: Fighting Erupts in Tripoli

    Among the false reports by the Lamestream media to support the U.S. invasion (think Saddam/WMD)

    1. Quaddafi used snipers on civillians
    2. Quadaffi used jet strikes on civillians
    3. Quadffi used viagra rapes on civillians

    And this is a United States invasion. The token assistance from France and the UK is window dressing. Obama is using the NATO cover to deflect criticism of more war by making it appear as "international" as possible.

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    Re: Fighting Erupts in Tripoli

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Who elected the rebels again?
    The people of Libya took their side... but mostly they all sided against Qudaffi

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    Re: Fighting Erupts in Tripoli

    Facebook is so influential considering that only 25% of Egyptians had access to the internet, and only half are reported to be literate. I heard that the U.S. backed "revolutionaries" were busing in protesters in Syria.

    Throw in some phony demonstration pictures of people who support Quaddafi as the west labels them "opposition" and poof - instant color revolution ...

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    Re: Fighting Erupts in Tripoli

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Any evidence that it was true? If not, why should I give it any more credence than I give Gaddafi's absurd claim that the rebels were all under the influence of hallucinogens?
    BBC News - Libya: Clinton condemns rape as weapon of war
    She praised the courage of Iman al-Obeidi, whose accusations of rape against soldiers loyal to Col Gaddafi drew worldwide attention when she stormed into a Tripoli hotel in Tripoli and shouted her experience to a group of journalists.
    One major in the Libyan army who has now deserted has told the BBC that reports of shipments of Viagra were widely known about, but said they were given to foreign mercenaries rather than the regular army.
    Col. Gaddafi's claim wasn't supported by credible reports and credible news agencies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Says who? The idea that when Gaddafi's forces killed civilians it was intentional, and when the rebels killed civilians it was accidental, is based on nothing more than your preconceived notion of who the "good guys" and "bad guys" are supposed to be.
    Show me reports of the atrocities committed by the rebels and then I will believe you. There are many reports for the other side. I know you want to condescend the 'good guys and bad guys' notion, but that's how its looking to be based on the facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    It's been all of, what, 12 hours since they were captured?
    Still, its remarkable they weren't shot instantly. Do you think Gaddafi would have given them the same privilege? I highly doubt it.

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    Re: Fighting Erupts in Tripoli

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    One thing is certain, and that is that they won't have LESS democracy than they had under Gaddafi.
    Yes... yes.... after the 4 factions start aiming their guns at each other.
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    Re: Fighting Erupts in Tripoli

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Wow, some of the posts in this thread are... surprisingly obtuse and revisionistic. First, this is not "America's" war. It's the Libyan rebels' war. America isn't supporting the rebels. NATO is supporting the rebels. The charge to get NATO involved was led by France, Italy and Spain. Europe gets a big hunk of its oil from Libya, after all. America has conducted no trade whatsoever with Libya since the mid-80's. America is, however, a part of NATO, and agreed to lend its aid. This isn't "Obama's war" and it's a pretty damned desperate sign of partisian hackery on those who imply otherwise.

    I'm pretty damned sick of reading all the "America killed Libyan civilians" crap. Were civilians possibly killed by NATO armaments? Yes. Were civilians being slaughtered by the thousands by Khadafi's troops? Most definitely. I hope Khadafi goes down, just like the 3 sons who have already been captured. I hope that the coming power vacuum isn't filled by yet another tyranical dictator. I hope Libyans get the freedoms they are seeking, but if they do, America will have had little to do with it. We didn't bleed for their freedoms. They did.
    and people please don't forget NATO was not the catalyst of the Libyan uprising. it was the Tunisian protest which sparked the Egyptian revolution which gave the entire arab world the balls to finally stand up to their repressive leaders and demand to be heard.
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