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Thread: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Maybe, maybe not. Evolution is a theory that has yet to be proved or disproved.
    Like gravity? There is no such thing as 100% certainty outside of theoretical mathematics.
    "A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    But evolution cannot explain the development of extremely complex and specialized body parts that serve no purpose until they actually reach their final configuration.
    You're right - unfortunately for your assertion, no example of truly irreducible complexity that does not confer some advantage has ever been described. That's one of the two findings that could immediately destroy evolution theory - true irreducible complexity or an anachronistic fossil... like a Precambrian rabbit or something. So far exactly 0 have been described, and it's not for a lack of trying.
    "A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I applaud Perry for putting evolution in it's place. It's an unproven theory and nothing more.
    Theories cannot be proven. As a matter of fact, the idea of "proof" is meaningless outside of mathematics. Theories are simply the most likely explanation of a given set of facts and observations, based on measurements and the resilience of falsifiable hypotheses.

    Got one of those?
    "A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    The thing about evolution is that it is a theory. We have no proof in the fossil record that amoebas lead to humans. In fact, nearly every animal just appeared...when you look at the fossil record. So, either fossils were not possible for a period of time, or creationism wins a point.

    p.s....this does not mean that micro evolution is not scientific fact...just macro evolution.
    "Theory" is as good as it gets in science. "Just a theory" indeed... hundreds of related yet independent hypotheses supported by centuries of observation and controlled experimentation.

    We do have proof that the ancestors of amoebas led to both amoebas and humans. As a matter of fact, you are FAR more similar to an amoeba than the prokaryotes! Hell, we didn't even diverge until after the endosymbiosis of mitochondria - and that was less than 2 billion years ago. Molecular genetics is a fun topic.

    As for gaps in the fossil record:
    1. Evolution theory is completely justified by means of other evidence (molecular phylogeny, embryology, biogeography, etc.) without the requirement of any fossil evidence. It is the icing on the evidence cake.
    2. Fossils are rare, occurring only under rather rare conditions - and usually not preserving soft tissues.
    3. The punctuated equilibrium model describes well how a population in which a spontaneous advantageous mutant allele arises can quickly change morphologically.
    4. If there is one gap... say a "missing link" (terribly misleading term, but alas) between species A and B, that is one gap. After having found a transitional form between A and B however, there are now twice as many "gaps" as before, even though much more is known about the evolutionary relationship between the two species. The more fossils discovered, the more gaps there must logically be between them.

    And finally - what the heck is the difference between micro and macro evolution? I mean c'mon - what's your definition of a "species" anyway?
    Last edited by nijato; 08-19-11 at 12:06 AM.
    "A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    The more I read about Huntsman, the more I like him. Unfortunately, he won't appeal the the "base" because far too many people in "the base" are under the asinine belief that one has to denounce science in order to be conservative.
    No, he won't appeal to the "base" because he's an unashamed moderate across the board in an election where people are looking for a conservative.

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    Liberal Fascist For Life!


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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    No, he won't appeal to the "base" because he's an unashamed moderate across the board in an election where people are looking for a conservative.
    You mean conservatives are looking for an ultra conservative. There are no classic, Reagan era conservatives running.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I always find it awkward that the overwhelming majority of the scientific community is complete support of evolution and yet evolution seems unproven to the largely religious classes. However, when you ask them to prove the existence of their mythical fairy in the sky, they can't even provide a simple example of its work through anything but a non-sequitur. Maybe some tools left behind by the creator, er "designer"? Maybe a giant monkey wrench? Some planet sized blueprints? Anything?
    Right - or even a historical reference to something that could only be discovered later... like if Moses came down from the mountain and said the ratio of circumference to diameter is irrational... then he'd have some cred.
    "A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    If you're setting out to school someone, here's a hint, know what the **** you're talking about. Evolutionary effects are seen at all levels of life, from the gene, to the individual, to the localized population group, up to species. Do you imagine that a mutation spontaneously arises in every animal belonging to a species?
    It pains me to admit it... but you are so right about this one.
    "A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    No, not really. There is no universally accepted definition of intelligence, and therefore no accepted test for it.
    As with religious creationists, you liberal creationists trot out objections that take the same form - definitional hoop-jumping. Go look in the locked thread on "Are you smarter than the Obama" and your questions will be answered.

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Psychometrics are at the squishy end of the soft sciences. In real biology land, there is no overall standard for measuring intelligence in humans.
    Why can't liberals learn from the mistakes made by The Obama. If you want to object to something make damn sure you know what you're talking about because if you telegraph that you're bluffing you can be damn sure that someone is going to call you on your asshattery.

    Nature Reviews: Neuroscience


    • MRI-based studies estimate a moderate correlation between brain size and intelligence of 0.40 to 0.51;
    • Genetic modelling has shown that g and grey matter volumes depend on the same set of genes (the genetic correlation is about 0.25);
    • g is significantly linked to differences in the volume of frontal grey matter, which were determined primarily by genetic factors;
    • The volume of frontal grey matter had additional predictive validity for g even after the predictive effect of total brain volume was factored out;
    • The linkage between volume of grey matter and g is mediated by a common set of genes;
    • Neural activity in several areas, measured by a positron emission tomography (PET) scan, was greater during high-g than low-g tasks;
    • Studies using electroencephalograms and event-related potentials indicate that the speed and reliability of neural transmission are related to higher intelligence;
    • Monozygotic twins raised separately following adoption show a correlation of 0.72 for intelligence; that is, one twin’s intelligence strongly predicts the other’s, despite their different rearing environments;
    • For 48 identical twin pairs separated in early infancy and reared apart, Bouchard et al. found remarkably high between-twin correlations for verbal scores on the WAIS (0.64) and for the first principal component of special mental abilities (0.78);
    • Psychometric g has been shown to be highly heritable in many studies, even more so than specific cognitive abilities (h2 = 0.6–0.8);


    Simple enough to program the computer to look for skin color genes. That hardly makes race an objective genetic definition.
    Please stop arguing strawman. Did I write that they programed a search parameter for skin color genes? Did I? If I didn't write that, then you pulling this **** out of your ass and passing it around as a refutation completely fails.

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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Do you just make this stuff out of your head? Climate models are always run backwards and forwards to correlate them with historical, known climate patterns. They aren't *just* run against other computer models, although they certainly do compare them. The objective is to continually improve the modeling.
    Yes... but I must admit the real problem here is not one that can be fixed. There's no way to have a truly controlled Earth climate system to compare experiments to, since we've only got one. So... we have to settle for models which are... well models.
    "A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

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