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Thread: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Is it a virtue to accept such things on faith, with no proof?
    Religion is a form of mass insanity.

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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Religion is a form of mass insanity.
    The same can be said of liberalism can't it?

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    believe it or not.... your wrong....

    for example....

    every breed of domestic dog( that i know of) is ONE species. All the different breeds have different aspects of average intelligence and mood tendency's and some even have instincts other don't at all (ex. herding, pointing).
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Actually, not.

    "The domestic dog was originally classified as Canis familiaris and Canis familiarus domesticus by Carolus Linnaeus in 1758,[19][20] and was reclassified in 1993 as Canis lupus familiaris, a subspecies of the gray wolf Canis lupus, by the Smithsonian Institution and the American Society of Mammalogists."
    Very Nice AdamT.
    Selectivley Plagiarizing, or more accurately, withholding the Link to be able to MISLEAD the board by 'short-quoting' it.

    Dog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    [.....]
    Taxonomy

    The domestic dog was originally classified as Canis familiaris and Canis familiarus domesticus by Carolus Linnaeus in 1758,[19][20] and was reclassified in 1993 as Canis lupus familiaris, a subspecies of the gray wolf Canis lupus, by the Smithsonian Institution and the American Society of Mammalogists. [[//* END AdamT *//]] Overwhelming evidence from behavior, vocalizations, morphology, and molecular biology led to the contemporary scientific understanding that a single species, the gray wolf, is the common ancestor for all breeds of domestic dogs;[21][22] however, the timeframe and mechanisms by which dogs diverged are controversial.[21] Canis lupus familiaris is listed as the name for the taxon that is broadly used in the scientific community and recommended by ITIS; Canis familiaris, however, is a recognised Synonym.[23]
    This is Underhanded and Unacceptable posting practice.
    Last edited by mbig; 08-20-11 at 03:08 AM.
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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Religion is a form of mass insanity.
    It can be, as when religion leads people to strap bombs on themselves to kill the "infidel". It is a milder form of insanity that leads people to reject modern science in favor of ancient stories.

    Still, can't a shared belief lead people to work together and accomplish more than they would otherwise, whether the belief system is grounded in reality or not?

    How many charities would be able to operate without having religious people volunteering and donating?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    It can be, as when religion leads people to strap bombs on themselves to kill the "infidel". It is a milder form of insanity that leads people to reject modern science in favor of ancient stories.

    Still, can't a shared belief lead people to work together and accomplish more than they would otherwise, whether the belief system is grounded in reality or not?

    How many charities would be able to operate without having religious people volunteering and donating?
    Very diplomatic yet true. Respect to you.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Interestingly, at least on study has shown that improvement in early child care (from about 4 months) can result in IQ improvement that is greater than the noted IQ differential between many of these countries. Abecedarian Early Intervention Project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The effects of improved early child care are even more notable in practical effect.
    Sorry, that's a no-go. Here's what's going on: We can indeed raise IQ in young children because we can totally dominate their environment and so we find that the IQ gains last only so long as that environmental control is maintained. Any parent on this board can tell you that as their children get older the parent has less and less control over how their children lead their lives. By the time that the children become teenagers, parents and educators can never again control so much of the child's environment and all early gains have been completely lost.

    Even one of the fiercest critics of the book "The Bell Curve" has had to admit to a change of position. Nobel Prize winner in economics James Heckman wrote in his critique of the Bell Curve:


    What little is known indicates that ability–or IQ–is not a fixed trait for the young (persons up to age 8 or so). Herrnstein noted this in IQ and the Meritocracy. Sustained high-intensity investments in the education of young children, including such parental activities as reading and responding to children, stimulate learning and further education. Good environments promote learning for young children at all levels of ability. In this sense, there is fragmentary evidence that enriched education can be a good investment even for children of low initial ability…

    Future research should focus on growth and development in measured ability prior to age 15 (the age of the youngest person in the Murray-Herrnstein sample), because existing research indicates that values are formed and cognition is developed prior to that age.


    He was so committed to refuting the conclusions of The Bell Curve that he actually set out a research program for himself which followed the outline he described above.

    Here is his conclusion after 8 years of studying the issue of early-childhood intervention:


    Another continuing blind spot in the vision of most educational planners and policy makers is a preoccupation with achievement tests and measures of cognitive skill as indicators of the success of an educational intervention. By narrowly focusing on cognition, they ignore the full array of socially and economically valuable non-cognitive skills and motivation produced by schools, families and other institutions. This emphasis also critically affects the way certain early intervention programs have been evaluated. For example, while enriched early intervention programs do not substantially alter IQ, they do substantially raise the non-cognitive skills and social competence of participants.

    An important lesson to draw from the entire literature on successful early interventions is that it is the social skills and motivation of the child that are more easily altered… not IQ. These social and emotional skills affect performance in school and in the workplace. We too often have a bias toward believing that only cognitive skills are of fundamental importance to success in life.


    What Heckman discovered is actually quite well known amongst those who study intelligence. Early childhood gains disappear as the child gets older. Not a surprise.

    So, if even a harsh critic of The Bell Curve concedes the following, then those who don't like these results need to up their game or show that Heckman is in error. His conclusions:

    -“Their (The Bell Curve) empirical work substantiates the role of IQ in accounting for a considerable portion of ethnic differences in socioeconomic outcomes”

    His own independent research designed to overturn the work presented in The Bell Curve finds that IQ is a measure of cognitive ability, that IQ is not easily altered, and that IQ is an important attribute in life.

    His new strategy is what many people recognize as "When life hands you lemons, make lemonade." He is pushing for the raising of non-cognitive abilities.

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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Riverdad, in case you missed this post before I was wondering if you could supply the titles of these studies you mentioned but failed to cite so that I can view them for myself.
    Is he still ducking this or did he give out the source? I think since he is going so far to duck it, the source probably lacks alot of credibility.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Whether or not it qualifies as a fallacy (I don't believe that claim was made) it is nonetheless an appeal to authority and therefore (logically speaking) not a particularly strong argument.
    Actually, logically speaking, appeal to authority of this sort is considered a strong induction.
    Yes, I said it wasn't a particularly strong argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    If a premise based on this strong induction is used in a logically valid deduction, it is presumed to be sound.
    I don't think this is true. Perhaps you can provide an example.

    Valid, yes. Sound, no.

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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    There's actually no basis for this inference you made. All that has to be shown is that the denigration on the basis of it being a theory is not a denigration at all. The implication actually is that not all theories are the same. Some, like evolution, germ theory and gravity, are a different kind of theory than a hypothesis to be tested.
    No, if you read what I said I was referring in particular to scientific theories. Your statement implied that because the theory is considered a scientific theory, we should trust it as we would the theory of gravity because it is also a scientific theory -- nonsense.

    The fact that gravity (and germ) theory are also scientific theories is irrelevant. It's only pointed out by you and others so as to say "to question evolution is to question gravity." This makes no sense; one has little or nothing to do with the other.

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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    It can be, as when religion leads people to strap bombs on themselves to kill the "infidel". It is a milder form of insanity that leads people to reject modern science in favor of ancient stories.

    Still, can't a shared belief lead people to work together and accomplish more than they would otherwise, whether the belief system is grounded in reality or not?

    How many charities would be able to operate without having religious people volunteering and donating?
    Good point.
    In a way isn't the belief of Santa is similiar. Behave and one is rewarded. Am a strong supporter of preserving the magic of Santa Claus.

    For me the bible is the original Wikipedia where people over time added their stories. Some historically valid and others are Santa Claus-like stories handed down from generation to generation.

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