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Thread: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

  1. #191
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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    The problem with this is that the IQ literature also shows that environment plays a significant role in determining IQ, which considerably hampers the hypothesis that the racial variance in IQ is caused by evolution.
    A number of highly educated, upper middle class white couples and the children they adopted were studied over multiple decades. The children in the study were grouped as follows - biological children of the couples, children born to two white parents, children born to a white parent and a black parent, children born to two black parents. The racial variance in intelligence presented itself.

    If you contend that environment is the cause of racial variance, then the specific environmental factors which TOTALLY cause this variance must be factors other than maternal education, family socioeconomic status, neighborhood environment, child's peer network, quantity of school resources, quality of teachers, for these children were all raised in the same families and yet their IQs showed racial variance.

    You toss out a environmental factor that you think is responsible and I'll shoot it down. Then pick another one and I'll shoot it down. Pretty soon you're going to be pinning all your hopes and prayers on only a few variables, likely ones that are unmeasurable, and those variables WILL have to have an immensely powerful effect.

    This evolution-denying line of argument that you're advancing is precisely my complaint with liberals.

    Lastly, why does it matter if you already concede the IQ variance is there and that there hasn't been any real closing of the gap despite the trillions of dollars that we've dumped into a sinkhole based on the premise that environmental remediation will solve the problem? Here is the reality that we're living with, deal with it honestly.

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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Researchers, Of Course, are aware of the variables and have been able to nullify them out for just about all factors/apologetics.

    Race differences in average IQ are largely genetic
    Medical Research News
    26-Apr-2005

    [............]
    The paper, "Thirty Years of Research on Race Differences in Cognitive Ability," by J. Philippe Rushton of the University of Western Ontario and Arthur R. Jensen of the University of California at Berkeley"....."
    "Neither the existence nor the size of race differences in IQ are a matter of dispute, only their cause," write the authors."..."

    "Race differences show up by 3 years of age, even After matching on maternal education and other variables," said Rushton. "Therefore they Cannot be due to poor education since this has not yet begun to exert an effect. That's why Jensen and I looked at the genetic hypothesis in detail. We examined 10 categories of evidence."

    1. The Worldwide Pattern of IQ Scores. East Asians average higher on IQ tests than Whites, both in the U. S. and in Asia, even though IQ tests were developed for use in the Euro-American culture.
    Around the world, the average IQ for East Asians centers around 106; for Whites, about 100; and for Blacks about 85 in the U.S. and 70 in sub-Saharan Africa.

    2. Race Differences are Most Pronounced on Tests that Best Measure the General Intelligence Factor (g). Black-White differences, for example, are larger on the Backward Digit Span test than on the less g loaded Forward Digit Span test.

    3. The Gene-Environment Architecture of IQ is the Same in all Races, and Race Differences are Most Pronounced on More Heritable Abilities. Studies of Black, White, and East Asian twins, for example, show the heritability of IQ is 50% or higher in all races.

    4. Brain Size Differences. Studies using magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) find a correlation of brain size with IQ of about 0.40. Larger brains contain more neurons and synapses and process information faster. Race differences in brain size are present at birth. By adulthood, East Asians average 1 cubic inch more cranial capacity than Whites who average 5 cubic inches more than Blacks.

    5. Trans-Racial Adoption Studies. Race differences in IQ Remain following adoption by White middle class parents. East Asians grow to average higher IQs than Whites while Blacks score lower. The Minnesota Trans-Racial Adoption Study followed children to age 17 and found race differences were even greater than at age 7: White children, 106; Mixed-Race children, 99; and Black children, 89.

    6. Racial Admixture Studies. Black children with lighter skin, for example, average higher IQ scores. In South Africa, the IQ of the mixed-race "Colored" population averages 85, intermediate to the African 70 and White 100.

    7. IQ Scores of Blacks and Whites Regress toward the Averages of Their Race. Parents pass on only some exceptional genes to offspring so parents with very high IQs tend to have more average children. Black and White children with parents of IQ 115 move to different averages--Blacks toward 85 and Whites to 100.

    8. Race Differences in Other "Life-History" Traits. East Asians and Blacks consistently fall at two ends of a continuum with Whites intermediate on 60 measures of maturation, personality, reproduction, and social organization. For example, Black children sit, crawl, walk, and put on their clothes earlier than Whites or East Asians.

    9. Race Differences and the Out-of-Africa theory of Human Origins. East Asian-White-Black differences fit the theory that modern humans arose in Africa about 100,000 years ago and expanded northward. During prolonged winters there was evolutionary selection for higher IQ created by problems of raising children, gathering and storing food, gaining shelter, and making clothes.

    10. Do Culture-Only Theories Explain the Data? Culture-only theories do not explain the highly consistent pattern of race differences in IQ, especially the East Asian data. No interventions such as ending segregation, introducing school busing, or "Head Start" programs have reduced the gaps as culture-only theory would predict.
    In their article, Rushton and Jensen also address some of the policy issues that stem from their conclusions. Their main recommendation is that people be treated as individuals, not as members of groups. They emphasized that their paper pertains only to average differences. They also called for the need to accurately inform the public about the true nature of individual and group differences, genetics and evolutionary biology.

    Rushton and Jensen are well-known for research on racial differences in intelligence. Jensen hypothesized a genetic basis for Black-White IQ differences in his 1969 Harvard Educational Review article. His later books Bias in Mental Tests (1980) and The g Factor (1998), as well as Rushton's (1995) Race, Evolution, and Behavior, show that tests are not biased against English speaking minorities and that Black-White-East Asian differences in brain size and IQ belong in an evolutionary framework..
    Last edited by mbig; 08-19-11 at 07:34 PM.
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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    I believe there are studies showing that infant care can have a significant effect on cognitive abilities, so I don't know that equalizing for things after age three is sufficient.

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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    IQ tests fail as a measure of genetic intelligence. The Flynn effect is solid proof against it. The constant increase in IQ scores over the last hundred years shouldn't be possible, as there has been no meaningful genetic changes in that time period. The reality is that the test is flawed and doesn't actually measure anything other than one's ability to take IQ tests.

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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    A number of highly educated, upper middle class white couples and the children they adopted were studied over multiple decades. The children in the study were grouped as follows - biological children of the couples, children born to two white parents, children born to a white parent and a black parent, children born to two black parents. The racial variance in intelligence presented itself.

    If you contend that environment is the cause of racial variance, then the specific environmental factors which TOTALLY cause this variance must be factors other than maternal education, family socioeconomic status, neighborhood environment, child's peer network, quantity of school resources, quality of teachers, for these children were all raised in the same families and yet their IQs showed racial variance.

    You toss out a environmental factor that you think is responsible and I'll shoot it down. Then pick another one and I'll shoot it down. Pretty soon you're going to be pinning all your hopes and prayers on only a few variables, likely ones that are unmeasurable, and those variables WILL have to have an immensely powerful effect.

    This evolution-denying line of argument that you're advancing is precisely my complaint with liberals.

    Lastly, why does it matter if you already concede the IQ variance is there and that there hasn't been any real closing of the gap despite the trillions of dollars that we've dumped into a sinkhole based on the premise that environmental remediation will solve the problem? Here is the reality that we're living with, deal with it honestly.
    Provide the titles of these studies, please, so that I can actually view them myself. I prefer to review sources myself instead of assuming that the second-hand (or even third-hand) information is accurately portrayed.

    Also, pretending that you can shoot things down by simply stating they are false is just pure nonsense.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 08-19-11 at 08:43 PM.

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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    [/SIZE]

    Read more: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy' - Darren Samuelsohn - POLITICO.com


    I have already contributed to his campaign once, and this makes me want to send the guy another check. However, since reason and sanity are not virtues Republican Primary Voters want in a candidate this year, I don't think this will help him out any.

    A Republican with integrity and an intellect. Nope, he will never be the GOP nominee. Another blowhard science denier Texan is much more their speed!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    IQ tests fail as a measure of genetic intelligence. The Flynn effect is solid proof against it. The constant increase in IQ scores over the last hundred years shouldn't be possible, as there has been no meaningful genetic changes in that time period. The reality is that the test is flawed and doesn't actually measure anything other than one's ability to take IQ tests.
    The Flynn Effect does Not address, nor does it explain race difference in IQ that can be Consistently measured screening out for all variables economic and environmental (such as the Minnesota Trans-racial adoption studies above.)
    That differential not is dispute. Just, as above, apologized for in various ways like "infant care."

    NIH:

    The Flynn Effect within Subgroups in the U.S.: Gender, Race, Income, Education, and Urbanization Differences in the NLSY-Children Data
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...?log$=activity

    [........]
    Similarly, race/ethnicity differences themselves were consistent with past findings, in that the race differences were ordered with Caucasian/NA/AA respondents’ scores higher than those of Hispanics’ scores, which were in turn higher than those of African Americans. There have been gradual shifts in the size of the race differences in math and other ability measures. For example, Hauser (1998) and Grissmer et al (1998) documented convergence of the race difference in data from the National Assessment of Educational Progress. Until the current study, this finding could be explained by a differential Flynn Effect in which minority scores increased at a steeper rate. However, we found no interaction in our data; the three different race categories each showed substantial FE’s, but they also tracked closely to the same consistent increase. The absence of race differences in FE patterns also has implications for the various other theories. If FE patterns in the NLSY-Children emerged from within the family, or were related to average family size (e.g., Sundet, Borren, & Tambs, 2008), ethnic differences in family culture and family size could potentially create differential FE patterns; but those differences were not observed. '...."
    Nor does the Flynn Effect account for, ie, Cranial capacity which is consistent with IQ, as are Life outcomes. The latter can be seen world-wide and on individual, group, and even Continental basis.
    -
    -
    Last edited by mbig; 08-19-11 at 09:15 PM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    I have already contributed to his campaign once, and this makes me want to send the guy another check. However, since reason and sanity are not virtues Republican Primary Voters want in a candidate this year, I don't think this will help him out any.
    I think you send should him four or five more checks. That would be sane and reasonable would it not?

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    IQ tests fail as a measure of genetic intelligence. The Flynn effect is solid proof against it. The constant increase in IQ scores over the last hundred years shouldn't be possible, as there has been no meaningful genetic changes in that time period. The reality is that the test is flawed and doesn't actually measure anything other than one's ability to take IQ tests.
    And the racial gaps don't close. It's a calibration issue.

    As for the canard that all the measure is how well one takes tests, only an ignoramus working on superficial knowledge would make that statement.

    For some reason liberals look down on people who ignore evidence and think people and dinosaurs existed at the same time, but when it comes time to protecting their biased view of reality, talking out of their ass is just fine and dandy. Go figure.

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    Re: Huntsman on evolution, warming: 'Call me crazy'

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    IQ tests fail as a measure of genetic intelligence. The Flynn effect is solid proof against it. The constant increase in IQ scores over the last hundred years shouldn't be possible, as there has been no meaningful genetic changes in that time period. The reality is that the test is flawed and doesn't actually measure anything other than one's ability to take IQ tests.
    We have gotten taller during that time period, why is not feasible that IQ scores increased as well?

    "Skeletons and written records show that human beings today are inches taller than humans just a century or two ago."

    Read more: Why Are People Taller Today Than Yesterday? - TIME
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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