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All Detroit Schoolkids To Get Free Meals

i already posted that most kids are eligible for free lunches, but thanks for the quote. tell you what, let's cut the oil co breaks and this program. or are they both small change?

Most isn't all. If we were to apply your thinking to adults, you're basically saying let's give everyone in Detroit food stamps even if they're making 60k a year.

All we're saying is that there is a cheaper way to do this. It would get rid of the stigma, and it would not prevent anyone who needs them from getting free meals.

This thread isn't about Big Oil. Stick to the issue. Is this an intelligent program or not?
 
Most isn't all. If we were to apply your thinking to adults, you're basically saying let's give everyone in Detroit food stamps even if they're making 60k a year.

All we're saying is that there is a cheaper way to do this. It would get rid of the stigma, and it would not prevent anyone who needs them from getting free meals.

This thread isn't about Big Oil. Stick to the issue. Is this an intelligent program or not?

It's not that there is a cheaper way. We are already doing it. Kids have no idea who gets a free meal and who doesn't unless they tell. They still know that Johnny's mom and dad didn't have their car repossesed and theirs was.
 
what about people who have kids when they can take of them and then lose their jobs? jeez. or let's say all those kids in detroit have freeloading, able to find work parents who refuse to find or keep employment. don't those kids still need to eat?

So they can't get food stamps?
We need another program to feed people, when they already qualify for a program the feeds them.

I don't think allowing parents to be ****ty, is a good way to "fix" things.
Just makes you an enabler.
 
It's not that there is a cheaper way. We are already doing it. Kids have no idea who gets a free meal and who doesn't unless they tell. They still know that Johnny's mom and dad didn't have their car repossesed and theirs was.

The article says that kids who don't receive free lunch pay cash, so you can tell by watching them if they're on free lunch or not. In a punch system they would be drawing from deposited money, so no cash would ever be traded.
 
That's an inaccurate number. We aren't "giving" them anything, either. We're just not taking it from them. And, as Harry said, much of that money is through tax breaks every business receives.

Secondly, we spend $79 billion a year on food subsidies (food stamps, WIC, free lunch program). There are roughly 64 million students in elementary, junior high, and high schools. For breakfast, lunch, and a snack, the current payout to each school from the government is $6.18 per child per day. For a year, that's $395,520,000 per year. Alaska receives about twice that amount per child and Hawaii receives about 1.5 times that amount per child. Then there's a seperate program for milk.

In 2007, the program cost us $8.7 billion to run. So if you deduct the $395 million in actual school reimbursement, the government spends $8.35 billion a year administering athe free lunch program. That means the government only spends about 4% of it's total budget directly on the students who need the food. Do you think 4% efficiency is enough justification to spend MORE money on providing free food for children who don't need free food?

You can bring in unrelated policy all day, but let's focus on the issue here.

actually, when foreign countries call royalties taxes, yes, we are GIVING IT TO THEM.

do you have a link for your stats, becasue i don't quite understand what program you say costs 8.7 billion to run? all food subsidies? or school subsidies? are you really saying that school subsidy programs, at the federal level, are 4% efficient? i'm having a hard time with that number.
 
The article says that kids who don't receive free lunch pay cash, so you can tell by watching them if they're on free lunch or not. In a punch system they would be drawing from deposited money, so no cash would ever be traded.

If Detroit is still dealing with their lunch program in a way that others have discarded 20 years ago it's not wonder they have so many problems.
 
actually, when foreign countries call royalties taxes, yes, we are GIVING IT TO THEM.

do you have a link for your stats, becasue i don't quite understand what program you say costs 8.7 billion to run? all food subsidies? or school subsidies? are you really saying that school subsidy programs, at the federal level, are 4% efficient? i'm having a hard time with that number.

8.7 billion a year for free lunch program: National School Lunch Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Reimbursement to schools for free lunch program: http://www.fns.usda.gov/cnd/lunch/aboutlunch/NSLPFactSheet.pdf

Student population: Education in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My math was mistaken, because I did it based on every student receiving free lunch, not based on the number who currently receive free lunch. Based on those numbers, the percentage of money actually going to the students from the federal government is much, much worse.
 
After visiting Detroit enough times to know how hard people's lives can be there, I support this program.

I believe in the virtues of fiscal conservativism, but it's not necessary to make every program the enemy right now. There are far, far greater expenditures at the Federal level than this right now that should concern us.
 
After visiting Detroit enough times to know how hard people's lives can be there, I support this program.

I believe in the virtues of fiscal conservativism, but it's not necessary to make every program the enemy right now. There are far, far greater expenditures at the Federal level than this right now that should concern us.

Doesn't the arguement always go that "there is something more important to worry about"?
 
After visiting Detroit enough times to know how hard people's lives can be there, I support this program.

I believe in the virtues of fiscal conservativism, but it's not necessary to make every program the enemy right now. There are far, far greater expenditures at the Federal level than this right now that should concern us.

What's the downside to going to a code system? All the kids who need free meals will still get them. No one will be able to tell who's on them. It will be cheaper in the long run than giving free meals to kids who don't need them.
 
Detroit isn't paying this. You are.

I don't mind paying. In fact, I'm happy to pay. For some of those kids, it's the only meal they'll have all day. If we really believe that our children are our future, then surely this is worth the investment.
 
I don't mind paying. In fact, I'm happy to pay. For some of those kids, it's the only meal they'll have all day. If we really believe that our children are our future, then surely this is worth the investment.

Why are the kids of well off parents not being fed? For that matter, why would this be the only meal for any kid?

This isn't about complaining about paying for low income lunches. It's about expanding it to those who can afford to pay for them.
 
Why are the kids of well off parents not being fed? For that matter, why would this be the only meal for any kid?

This isn't about complaining about paying for low income lunches. It's about expanding it to those who can afford to pay for them.

I was always grateful that I could afford to feed my kids on my own and also that I had control over their nutrition. Also, I would be ashamed if I owned a "something for nothing attitude."
 
I was always grateful that I could afford to feed my kids on my own and also that I had control over their nutrition. Also, I would be ashamed if I owned a "something for nothing attitude."

Trains run on time expect for when your watch is broke.
 
I was always grateful that I could afford to feed my kids on my own and also that I had control over their nutrition. Also, I would be ashamed if I owned a "something for nothing attitude."

Then I guess the question is, why do you support this? It's dumb policy. We can give free meals to every kid who needs them in a way that no one can tell who they are by using code systems, without spending more than we have to by giving them to kids who don't need it. It doesn't make fiscal or ethical sense.

I'm a progressive. I totally support making sure every kid is able to eat. But this is bad policy. There's a cheaper way to do it.

Why is no one answering my question when I ask what the downside to a code system is?
 
Then I guess the question is, why do you support this? It's dumb policy. We can give free meals to every kid who needs them in a way that no one can tell who they are by using code systems, without spending more than we have to by giving them to kids who don't need it. It doesn't make fiscal or ethical sense.

I'm a progressive. I totally support making sure every kid is able to eat. But this is bad policy. There's a cheaper way to do it.

Why is no one answering my question when I ask what the downside to a code system is?

There isn't one. That's the problem. But I think people are afraid to say they don't want free lunches going to all kids because they might appear heartless. I don't view it that way.
 
Then I guess the question is, why do you support this? It's dumb policy. We can give free meals to every kid who needs them in a way that no one can tell who they are by using code systems, without spending more than we have to by giving them to kids who don't need it. It doesn't make fiscal or ethical sense.

I'm a progressive. I totally support making sure every kid is able to eat. But this is bad policy. There's a cheaper way to do it.

Why is no one answering my question when I ask what the downside to a code system is?

Sorry, and I agree with you that there should be no stigma. It's not the kids' fault. I was speaking only to the larger issue rather than to the specific plan.
 
8.7 billion a year for free lunch program: National School Lunch Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Reimbursement to schools for free lunch program: http://www.fns.usda.gov/cnd/lunch/aboutlunch/NSLPFactSheet.pdf

Student population: Education in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My math was mistaken, because I did it based on every student receiving free lunch, not based on the number who currently receive free lunch. Based on those numbers, the percentage of money actually going to the students from the federal government is much, much worse.

in 2009 we spent about 16 billion on the foods services for kids through schools. the portion given to the schools is a reimbursement for each lunch/breakfast/snack served. i am looking for the actual detailed budget for the program, because something is missing here.
 
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What's the downside to going to a code system? All the kids who need free meals will still get them. No one will be able to tell who's on them. It will be cheaper in the long run than giving free meals to kids who don't need them.

It's not like the free meals are going to be amazing. Children who have food at home will probably eat better things with their parents. Also, assessing who does and doesn't need food takes too much time, plus it's intrusive. If everyone has access then it happens more effectively. I don't think everyone is going to be flocking to the cafeteria to take advantage of a deal. In primary school I had access to free meals but almost never took them, except on the odd day I felt more hungry than usual.
 
Students Receiving Free and Reduced Priced Lunch - Michigan - KIDS COUNT Data Center

In Michigan, most kids in all districts qualify for free lunch (see link above). Michigan has also seen the fastest, most severe loss of jobs, highest unemployment numbers, some of the worst budgetary shortfalls, and extreme funds mismanagement.

That doesn't mean that a state already receiving a large amount of federal aid due to poor state-wide government policy should receive even MORE aid for those who DON'T need it, especially when there are cheaper, more efficient means of handling a fairly small problem.

Rightwingers HATE welfare, unless it's going to corporations. Then, they can't find a govt welfare program to end

Feeding children who don't need it = BAD
Feeding profitable corps that don't need it = GOOD
 
i already posted that most kids are eligible for free lunches, but thanks for the quote. tell you what, let's cut the oil co breaks and this program. or are they both small change?

Now there's a govt welfare pgm that could use some cutting, but suddenly, the rightwingers JUST LOVE their govt welfare
 
It's not like the free meals are going to be amazing. Children who have food at home will probably eat better things with their parents. Also, assessing who does and doesn't need food takes too much time, plus it's intrusive. If everyone has access then it happens more effectively. I don't think everyone is going to be flocking to the cafeteria to take advantage of a deal. In primary school I had access to free meals but almost never took them, except on the odd day I felt more hungry than usual.

If you're on the free lunch program you get the same basic lunch as every other student (protein, 2-3 veggies, some kind of dessert, and a drink). It isn't any more or any less than what a paying student gets. The only difference is the "extras" that some schools offer for a set price, like ice cream sandwiches, cookies, sodas, etc...and they're trying to get rid of those anyway.
 
That's an inaccurate number. We aren't "giving" them anything, either. We're just not taking it from them. And, as Harry said, much of that money is through tax breaks every business receives.

Secondly, we spend $79 billion a year on food subsidies (food stamps, WIC, free lunch program). There are roughly 64 million students in elementary, junior high, and high schools. For breakfast, lunch, and a snack, the current payout to each school from the government is $6.18 per child per day. For a year, that's $395,520,000 per year. Alaska receives about twice that amount per child and Hawaii receives about 1.5 times that amount per child. Then there's a seperate program for milk.

In 2007, the program cost us $8.7 billion to run. So if you deduct the $395 million in actual school reimbursement, the government spends $8.35 billion a year administering athe free lunch program. That means the government only spends about 4% of it's total budget directly on the students who need the food. Do you think 4% efficiency is enough justification to spend MORE money on providing free food for children who don't need free food?

You can bring in unrelated policy all day, but let's focus on the issue here.

Govt welfare to feed children who don't need it = BAD
Govt welfare to subsidize corps that don't need it = GOOD
 
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