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Rasmussen: Rick Perry now up 11 points on GOP field

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What if...? said:
The money supply is finite moment to moment. If a few own too much of that money, there isn't enough to BE paychecks.

The "pie" does grow, but if the same people get the lions share of all "new" pie, the "pie-less" are still "pie-less".
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the pie is growing out of proportion because of our ability to debase the currency, not because tax rates are cut.

you are actually agreeing with me. the rich get the new pie before it dilutes the value of all the old pie. the pie-less eventually do get more pie, but by the time they see it, the pie has been digested and looks more like poo then pie.

what we just described is the situation that came into play 6 years prior to Reagan. This is what the problem is, not tax rates.
 
Boo Radley said:
Even if true, so? They didn't do both at the same time. If they did, they could not have had that problem. You're actually just saying they were incompetent.
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He posts proof that the rightwingers are boobs, and uses that as an argument for putting the boobs in charge of the economy :cuckoo:
 
disneydude said:
Actually....they didn't. The majority of Americans wanted a "public option".....the poor substitution that we got was a result of an attempt to compromise and include the Republican idea of requiring Americans to purchase insurance to get a handful of bluedogs to go along. The American people absolutely did not get what they voted for.
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Problem is that the fox is guarding the hen house and the people who are making these decisions are immune from the effects of what they do. Until that changes, we're all in a pretty ****ed up situation.

It's a ****ty deal, any way you cut it. But the sooner you realize that there is no "sweet deal" for anyone anymore, and take action to preserve whatever you've got going with respect to your family finances, retirement, etc., the better off you'll be. Because dude, this is happening. ...And it's happening right now.
 
Conservative said:
I am for hospitals going after anyone that shirks their responsibility regarding payment for services rendered and taking their assets if necessary.
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Taking assets? ROFL Most of those that don't pay hospital bills do so because they have no assets. They are most likely living paycheck to paycheck. You may find a TV and a couple of other older electronics, possibly clothes and toys. Their car, if they have one at all, is probably owned by whatever ****ty bank or used car dealership gave them a loan at huge interest rates. And it most likely wouldn't be worth anything anyway. They are most likely renting their home. Their total assets liquidated would probably be less than a couple of thousand dollars, at most, and that would be if you sold all their clothes and other personal belongings.

One out-patient operation can cost over $7000 by itself, not including additional doctor visits. How much do you think an emergency trip to the ER would cost? On average, between $1200 and $1700. This is just for one ER visit. What do you do if the person is just treated for the symptoms and sent home then has to return later that day or the next because they got worse? Or worse, their problem requires an overnight stay? There is no way that the person will be able to pay off their bill with their assets.

The sad part is that it doesn't need to cost that much. So many things are marked up, for several reasons, including price gougers for drugs/medications.
 
ARealConservative said:
the pie is growing out of proportion because of our ability to debase the currency, not because tax rates are cut.

you are actually agreeing with me. the rich get the new pie before it dilutes the value of all the old pie. the pie-less eventually do get more pie, but by the time they see it, the pie has been digested and looks more like poo then pie.

what we just described is the situation that came into play 6 years prior to Reagan. This is what the problem is, not tax rates.
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Cool, and that WOULD provide a possible explanation as to WHAT happened about that time that changed the economic trajectories of the American people.

Sometime in the 70s everybody stopped moving forward fiscally. The top quintiles income has skyrocketed, the lower 4 have stagnated or fallen.

I actually believe that global expansionist capitalism became parasitic when the world filled up and there was nowhere to expand into that wasn't already occupied.
 
roguenuke said:
Taking assets? ROFL Most of those that don't pay hospital bills do so because they have no assets. They are most likely living paycheck to paycheck. You may find a TV and a couple of other older electronics, possibly clothes and toys. Their car, if they have one at all, is probably owned by whatever ****ty bank or used car dealership gave them a loan at huge interest rates. And it most likely wouldn't be worth anything anyway. They are most likely renting their home. Their total assets liquidated would probably be less than a couple of thousand dollars, at most, and that would be if you sold all their clothes and other personal belongings.

One out-patient operation can cost over $7000 by itself, not including additional doctor visits. How much do you think an emergency trip to the ER would cost? On average, between $1200 and $1700. This is just for one ER visit. What do you do if the person is just treated for the symptoms and sent home then has to return later that day or the next because they got worse? Or worse, their problem requires an overnight stay? There is no way that the person will be able to pay off their bill with their assets.

The sad part is that it doesn't need to cost that much. So many things are marked up, for several reasons, including price gougers for drugs/medications.
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There you go again being an expert, you don't have any idea how many people use the ER's don't have any assets or the ability to pay. Like all liberals you never identify who is using the ER's, their ability to pay, or are they just abusing the system. That is being very naive.

Why is it always the drug and healthcare companies and never the abusers of the system? How many illegals get ER services and never pay? why don't you define the problem instead of generalizing that it is those evil companies fault and not the millions that abuse the system? Told the forum of my experience, I ran a business that employed over 1200, we offered full healthcare to full and part time employees payng 80% of the premiums and providing both single and family coverage. Of those 1200 less than 50% elected to take the coverage and did not because they were that invinceable crowd. Oh, by the way, I never paid even close to minimum wage for my hourly employees, always much, much higher and offered bonuses as well.
 
Conservative said:
Oh, by the way, I never paid even close to minimum wage for my hourly employees, always much, much higher and offered bonuses as well.
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That's definitely a thing to be proud of.

In your opinion, are you in the minority or majority of employers (paying above minimum wage, lets say when a company is healthy and can afford it), and do you think it varies based on the size of the company (ie healthy small business pays better than healthy large corporation)?

And I'm talking about the lower-skilled employees, of course.
 
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Conservative said:
There you go again being an expert, you don't have any idea how many people use the ER's don't have any assets or the ability to pay. Like all liberals you never identify who is using the ER's, their ability to pay, or are they just abusing the system. That is being very naive.

Why is it always the drug and healthcare companies and never the abusers of the system? How many illegals get ER services and never pay? why don't you define the problem instead of generalizing that it is those evil companies fault and not the millions that abuse the system? Told the forum of my experience, I ran a business that employed over 1200, we offered full healthcare to full and part time employees payng 80% of the premiums and providing both single and family coverage. Of those 1200 less than 50% elected to take the coverage and did not because they were that invinceable crowd. Oh, by the way, I never paid even close to minimum wage for my hourly employees, always much, much higher and offered bonuses as well.
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Because I have lived without healthcare pretty much my entire life, only excepting that time being in the military. My parents made $40K a year during my teen years, and we still couldn't afford to own a home or get health insurance. If someone got sick, we struggled through. The only time we used medical care was when it was absolutely needed, like when my sisters both got pneumonia at the same time one year, or when my little sister broke her leg, or my little brother fell out the window and cut his back wide open, or when I got blood poisoning. My mother (who was the only one ever offered medical care through her job) could not afford an extra $400 a month just to insure us. That was just the premium.

It's easy to tell people, "hey, you shouldn't have kids you can't afford", but in real life, it doesn't work that way. What exactly do you do when those kids come along? I know what it is like to be poor and live paycheck to paycheck, never owning a house or really having anything of value within the family. Even if it is due to poor choices, many of those people are trying their best to correct for those poor choices, but end up making other mistakes just to get by.

Do you have any idea how those workers of yours were living? Did you know enough about every one of their personal lives to be able to say, "they just didn't want it"?
 
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Conservative said:
There you go again being an expert, you don't have any idea how many people use the ER's don't have any assets or the ability to pay. Like all liberals you never identify who is using the ER's, their ability to pay, or are they just abusing the system. That is being very naive.

Why is it always the drug and healthcare companies and never the abusers of the system? How many illegals get ER services and never pay? why don't you define the problem instead of generalizing that it is those evil companies fault and not the millions that abuse the system? Told the forum of my experience, I ran a business that employed over 1200, we offered full healthcare to full and part time employees payng 80% of the premiums and providing both single and family coverage. Of those 1200 less than 50% elected to take the coverage and did not because they were that invinceable crowd. Oh, by the way, I never paid even close to minimum wage for my hourly employees, always much, much higher and offered bonuses as well.
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If only 50% of your company's employees elected health insurance that would put your company way below the national average. About 85% of Americans have health insurance.
 
Conservative said:
Why is it always the drug and healthcare companies and never the abusers of the system? How many illegals get ER services and never pay? why don't you define the problem instead of generalizing that it is those evil companies fault and not the millions that abuse the system?
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Just wanted to address this part separately.

Many places do mark up their drug costs to doctors and hospitals. And some doctors and hospitals will, in turn, mark up their costs to help cover patients that are most likely not going to pay for their bills.

Price-Gouging by Doctors and Hospitals : HEALTH REFORM WATCH
Corporate price gouging for medicine to prevent preterm birth
Another Example of Big Pharma Price-Gouging | Medicine Report

There are thousands more
 
Conservative said:
Why is it always the drug and healthcare companies and never the abusers of the system?
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Why do you think Obamacare includes a health insurance mandate? It's there to thin the herd of abusers of the system. So why do you oppose the mandate, i.e., support abusers of the system?
 
Conservative said:
There you go again being an expert, you don't have any idea how many people use the ER's don't have any assets or the ability to pay. Like all liberals you never identify who is using the ER's, their ability to pay, or are they just abusing the system. That is being very naive.
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I had to go to the ER for heat exhaustion and dangerously low level of potassium last month. The cost of the IV drip alone was 2,000 dollars and the doctor visit (5 mins) was another 1,000. The cheapest thing about the visit was the labs. I wonder why that is, it has nothing to do with monopoly of care does it?
 
David D. said:
That's definitely a thing to be proud of.

In your opinion, are you in the minority or majority of employers (paying above minimum wage, lets say when a company is healthy and can afford it), and do you think it varies based on the size of the company (ie healthy small business pays better than healthy large corporation)?

And I'm talking about the lower-skilled employees, of course.
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Most of the companies I competed against offered healthcare but not the bonus program I had. I did competitive surveys to make sure I offered more than competitive pay. My turnover was lower than the industry and yes many of these were lower skilled employees. They CHOSE not to participate in the insurance program and I found that to be the rule rather than the exception
 
AdamT said:
Why do you think Obamacare includes a health insurance mandate? It's there to thin the herd of abusers of the system. So why do you oppose the mandate, i.e., support abusers of the system?
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There is a mandate because that is the only way Obama can make this work, he needs massive numbers to fund this program that does nothing to lower healthcare costs.
 
Conservative said:
There is a mandate because that is the only way Obama can make this work, he needs massive numbers to fund this program that does nothing to lower healthcare costs.
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Yes, you can't require insurance cover pre-existing conditions without a mandate. Insurance companies have to have the numbers in order to cover this. Not sure what you're actually trying to say though.
 
Boo Radley said:
Yes, you can't require insurance cover pre-existing conditions without a mandate. Insurance companies have to have the numbers in order to cover this. Not sure what you're actually trying to say though.
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What I am trying to say is what we all know, the govt. has no business mandating that the American people buy anything especially something that is a jobs killer and will do nothing to lower healthcare costs.
 
Conservative said:
What I am trying to say is what we all know, the govt. has no business mandating that the American people buy anything especially something that is a jobs killer and will do nothing to lower healthcare costs.
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I don't know how you get that from what you actually said, but OK. We'll see how the court thing works out, but you can't make insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions without the mandate.
 
Conservative said:
What I am trying to say is what we all know, the govt. has no business mandating that the American people buy anything especially something that is a jobs killer and will do nothing to lower healthcare costs.
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I don't know of a single projection that says costs will not out pace inflation what ever plan is utilized. I do know of a projection that if things were to stay as they were prior to the PPACA says this:

[SUP]
[/SUP] The results of CBO’s projections suggest that in the absence of changes in federal law:
■
 Total spending on health care would rise from 16 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) in 2007 to 25 percent in 2025, 37 percent in 2050, and 49 percent in 2082.
The Long-Term Outlook for Health Care Spending
 
winston53660 said:
I don't know of a single projection that says costs will not out pace inflation what ever plan is utilized. I do know of a projection that if things were to stay as they were prior to the PPACA says this:

[SUP]
[/SUP] The results of CBO’s projections suggest that in the absence of changes in federal law:
■
 Total spending on health care would rise from 16 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) in 2007 to 25 percent in 2025, 37 percent in 2050, and 49 percent in 2082.
The Long-Term Outlook for Health Care Spending
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CBO Projections that far out aren't worth the paper they are written on and what happens if you and the rest of the Obamacare fans are wrong? There is a difference between taxpayer funded healthcare and private funded healthcare. You don't seem to know the difference
 
Conservative said:
There is a mandate because that is the only way Obama can make this work, he needs massive numbers to fund this program that does nothing to lower healthcare costs.
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The only way to lower health care cost at this point is by destroying the AMA's monopoly on care
 
Conservative said:
CBO Projections that far out aren't worth the paper they are written on and what happens if you and the rest of the Obamacare fans are wrong? There is a difference between taxpayer funded healthcare and private funded healthcare. You don't seem to know the difference
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Ah great platitudes that are equivalent to a donut hole.

:yawn:Historically the rate of inflation in health care costs has been higher in the private sector vs the public sector.
 
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That parry has less of a chance in a gen election than romni does
 
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