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Thread: Evergreen Solar files for bankruptcy, plans asset sale

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    Re: Evergreen Solar files for bankruptcy, plans asset sale

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    You're trying to use one example to show the green energy won't create any jobs... massive failure. I don't know why some people have it out for green energy and think it's a waste of time, effort, and energy. Oh yeah, and it defiantly is creating jobs. My dad and his partner's firm has been getting a lot of business from the wind farm industry that is being created right now.
    Maybe it has more to do with government forcing them to pay for and consume it than a hatred of green energy.

    I love cake but if you try to force it down my throat, my reaction will likely create a bit of a mess.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Evergreen Solar files for bankruptcy, plans asset sale

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    Maybe it has more to do with government forcing them to pay for and consume it than a hatred of green energy.

    I love cake but if you try to force it down my throat, my reaction will likely create a bit of a mess.
    From my understanding, most of these wind farms have involved city councils casting votes and allocating resources such as government property to these farms. The government is going to have to be involved. Local governments are the largest employers of water and wastewater treatment plants. People want clean water and sewage systems, right? Or is that evil government forcing us to flush our **** down toilets and charge us with taxes for each **** we take?

    It's one of the benefits of having a government. The people want green energy or a sewage system, and their governments and city councils make it possible. If the free market doesn't think there is a market yet or think it's possible enough, why wait? Sewage systems are practical, and it's practical that people want green energy.

    The government has invested money in many great things... the highway system, sewage systems, phone lines, telecommunications, etc. We can't afford to have take an oppressive attitude towards investing in the progress of our nation.

  3. #83
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    Re: Evergreen Solar files for bankruptcy, plans asset sale

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    From my understanding, most of these wind farms have involved city councils casting votes and allocating resources such as government property to these farms. The government is going to have to be involved. Local governments are the largest employers of water and wastewater treatment plants. People want clean water and sewage systems, right? Or is that evil government forcing us to flush our **** down toilets and charge us with taxes for each **** we take?

    It's one of the benefits of having a government. The people want green energy or a sewage system, and their governments and city councils make it possible. If the free market doesn't think there is a market yet or think it's possible enough, why wait? Sewage systems are practical, and it's practical that people want green energy.

    The government has invested money in many great things... the highway system, sewage systems, phone lines, telecommunications, etc. We can't afford to have take an oppressive attitude towards investing in the progress of our nation.
    Sewage systems werenít forced on the free market and neither were highways, phone lines or telecommunications. What you and many liberals are doing today is nothing like what brought these technologies to bear and is nothing like the comparisons you are making. You canít compare the destruction of an existing market to those where none existed.

    Forcing traditional energy to become so unaffordable and overregulated by the government while dumping money you take from us into less efficient energy sources is hardly similar to the development of public utilities or the construction of our transportation system.

    There will be debates over the best way to spend government money as there are with any topic but government destruction of the traditional energy sector in an attempt to replace it with something more expensive and less efficient is going to create a bit of an uproar.

    Care to ponder why people hate green energy some more or are you starting to understand that it isnít the green energy people hate, itís the idea that government knows best and should take away their freedoms and their monies in order to do what is best for them, because the people obviously arenít intelligent enough to make the right choices on their own?

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Evergreen Solar files for bankruptcy, plans asset sale

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    Sewage systems werenít forced on the free market and neither were highways, phone lines or telecommunications. What you and many liberals are doing today is nothing like what brought these technologies to bear and is nothing like the comparisons you are making. You canít compare the destruction of an existing market to those where none existed.

    Forcing traditional energy to become so unaffordable and overregulated by the government while dumping money you take from us into less efficient energy sources is hardly similar to the development of public utilities or the construction of our transportation system.

    There will be debates over the best way to spend government money as there are with any topic but government destruction of the traditional energy sector in an attempt to replace it with something more expensive and less efficient is going to create a bit of an uproar.

    Care to ponder why people hate green energy some more or are you starting to understand that it isnít the green energy people hate, itís the idea that government knows best and should take away their freedoms and their monies in order to do what is best for them, because the people obviously arenít intelligent enough to make the right choices on their own?
    Sewage systems weren't forced on the free market... you're seriously digging. Yeah, it's not like there was an alternative to a sewage systems like an outhouse. It's like the free market produced ****ters for outhouses or anything.

    It's not like horsebreeding wasn't a huge market prior to automobiles and the highway system.

    Opposing green energy isn't the solution to rising energy costs either. Green energy is competition, and competition drives down prices. Yes, we have regulations on the fuel and gas industry. We have regulations on a lot of industries, but we also give the fuel and gas industries government subsidies.

    Some states and local governments have decided to invest in green energy, but we also give their competitors subsidies... which begs the question if you against those subsidies or not.

    And I think you're reaching when you claim the government is trying to destroy traditional energy... Local governments have decided to invest in green tech, and that decision was guided by the people. If you don't want your government to do it, then tell them with your vote. Are wind farms going up in your community?

    In all honesty, I find your posts to be full of delusions and fear.

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    Re: Evergreen Solar files for bankruptcy, plans asset sale

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Sewage systems weren't forced on the free market... you're seriously digging. Yeah, it's not like there was an alternative to a sewage systems like an outhouse. It's like the free market produced ****ters for outhouses or anything.

    It's not like horsebreeding wasn't a huge market prior to automobiles and the highway system.

    Opposing green energy isn't the solution to rising energy costs either. Green energy is competition, and competition drives down prices. Yes, we have regulations on the fuel and gas industry. We have regulations on a lot of industries, but we also give the fuel and gas industries government subsidies.

    Some states and local governments have decided to invest in green energy, but we also give their competitors subsidies... which begs the question if you against those subsidies or not.

    And I think you're reaching when you claim the government is trying to destroy traditional energy... Local governments have decided to invest in green tech, and that decision was guided by the people. If you don't want your government to do it, then tell them with your vote. Are wind farms going up in your community?

    In all honesty, I find your posts to be full of delusions and fear.
    You are still comparing apples and oranges.

    You want the government to force the price of conventional energy to such an extreme high and to subsidize green energy until consumers will be forced to purchase green energy right?

    The infrastructure you reference was not implemented in this manner.

    I think you are mistaken if you think this is simply local governments who have decided to invest in green energy. Conservatives wouldnít have a problem with that. As I said, I donít think conservatives are anti green energy at all. They are anti federal government shoving it down thier throats.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Evergreen Solar files for bankruptcy, plans asset sale

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    You are still comparing apples and oranges.

    You want the government to force the price of conventional energy to such an extreme high and to subsidize green energy until consumers will be forced to purchase green energy right?

    The infrastructure you reference was not implemented in this manner.

    I think you are mistaken if you think this is simply local governments who have decided to invest in green energy. Conservatives wouldnít have a problem with that. As I said, I donít think conservatives are anti green energy at all. They are anti federal government shoving it down thier throats.
    And your given me a strawman to debate, how the hell did you reach the conclusion that I want the government to force the prices on fuel to increase so turn to green technology?

    That's such a partisan, hack attack and you clearly did not reach that conclusion based on anything I said. You probably have that thought placed in your head by talk radio or some other partisan propaganda medium.

    If you think I am mistaken, then post some sources or do some research. I am not simply going to take your word for anything. I have read about he areas building the wind farms that my family's firm is in the works with, and they were decided to go ahead with the project by local government votes.

    I don't even believe the government is forcing green energy on anybody the way you think. Fuel prices aren't even that high from when Bush was in office, and given all the facts. It just doesn't add up... other countries pay a much higher price on fuel than we do.

    Nothing you're saying makes sense.

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    Re: Evergreen Solar files for bankruptcy, plans asset sale

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    I donít see conservatives rooting against clean renewable energy. Conservatives are rooting for free markets without over regulation by the government and without wasteful spending of our tax dollars.

    When clean renewable energy becomes affordable, conservatives will buy and use it.
    Except they're lying. Republicans are pushing hard for nuclear, despite it being one of the most coddled forms of energy out there. The US Government subsidies every kilowatt of nuclear to a degree similar to renewable at the same time as guaranteeing construction loans which severely reduce the amount of interest that otherwise would have been paid. And if we priced in the costs of pollution from coal plants in a real free market rather then spread the cost among everyone else, coal would go up significantly. Republicans dislike the free market just as much as everyone else. They just lie about supporting it.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Evergreen Solar files for bankruptcy, plans asset sale

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    So it's an unsolvable discrepancy of an unknown magnitude, and that's taking the paper at face value! Of course, quite a few scientists have already come out and pointed out technical flaws with the paper.
    The more partisan you are, the less you understand science and math. Like a certain user here who argued that the US population doubles monthly because BLS data is cumulative.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Evergreen Solar files for bankruptcy, plans asset sale

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    This is what climate change deniers don't get.
    It's not just that. Most of them have no real grasp of science of any measurable amount. So when they see an article they think supports their position as C-man just did, they all pile in. The problem is most of the time the articles they cite either don't actually have any data or don't support their position. C-man's posted article already was pointed out to basically say that the discrepancies cannot be explained because the method of collecting the original and the current data aren't accurate. That basically tells us nothing. But since most of them simply do not understand science at all, they think it supports their positions. And because they do not understand science, when those who DO point it out, they lack the knowledge to understand the rebuttal.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Evergreen Solar files for bankruptcy, plans asset sale

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    It's not just that. Most of them have no real grasp of science of any measurable amount. So when they see an article they think supports their position as C-man just did, they all pile in. The problem is most of the time the articles they cite either don't actually have any data or don't support their position. C-man's posted article already was pointed out to basically say that the discrepancies cannot be explained because the method of collecting the original and the current data aren't accurate. That basically tells us nothing. But since most of them simply do not understand science at all, they think it supports their positions. And because they do not understand science, when those who DO point it out, they lack the knowledge to understand the rebuttal.
    Hell, C-man hasn't even admitted that NASA said nothing anywhere near what he claims.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Weíll say what? Something like ďnothing happenedĒ ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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