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Thread: Evergreen Solar files for bankruptcy, plans asset sale

  1. #91
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    Re: Evergreen Solar files for bankruptcy, plans asset sale

    I was reading an interesting article about Evergreen Solar the other day, and what caused its downfall. When the company was first formed, it succeeded because it invented a way to harvest solar power that avoided using expensive silicon and used cheaper alternative materials instead. But since then, the cost of using silicon in solar panels has fallen dramatically, and Evergreen's manufacturing process became a liability rather than an asset. That sucks for them, but it hardly indicates problems with solar power in general. Quite the opposite. We should be celebrating the fact that the cost of producing solar energy is dropping rapidly, on a Moore's Law-like trajectory. It's quite possible that some time within the next decade, it will reach price parity with dirtier forms of energy like coal/oil.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 08-21-11 at 03:29 AM.
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    Re: Evergreen Solar files for bankruptcy, plans asset sale

    You want to know how to place solar power on a path to true energy productivity? It's very simple: Change property construction laws to make it mandatory (or atleast an option) to incorporating solar panels into new home/commercial property construction. I understand this is already an option in high energy usage states/areas, i.e., Arizona, Texas, Nevada, Oklahoma, areas known for high energy cost and extreme heat but if it were a wider held option for new home construction across the country instead of being centralized mainly within the "heatwave states", solar energy would stand a better chance of catching on as a way to reduce energy costs.

    Right now, most people who want to install solar panels on their homes do so first generally by applying for a federal home improvement/energy grant and then finding a company to purchase solar panels from. They then right off the purchase on their taxes. The problem with this process is who wants to re-wire their home for solar panels after the home has been constructed? Moreover, if you have to "apply" for the grant and wait to ensure you've found the right "grant writing formula" to win those federal dollars...

    To cumbersome. Why not remove all the red tape and just give the new homeowner the option up front? Bottom Line: solar power needs to be given the right incentives to become an alternative energy sources if it is ever to be given a change to succeed in this country. Changing new home construction laws or atleast providing the option would be a great first step. Look at it as putting the horse before the cart as it should be...or atleast providing an option to choose a buggy - an upgrade or alternative energy conservation source - over the cart.

  3. #93
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    Re: Evergreen Solar files for bankruptcy, plans asset sale

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    And your given me a strawman to debate, how the hell did you reach the conclusion that I want the government to force the prices on fuel to increase so turn to green technology?

    That's such a partisan, hack attack and you clearly did not reach that conclusion based on anything I said.
    If you donít like the way I interpret your vague and rambling comments, feel free to be more clear about your position in the future. I reached my conclusion based upon your liberal lean and your comments.


    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    You probably have that thought placed in your head by talk radio or some other partisan propaganda medium.
    Isnít this a partisan hack attack and an assumption by you?

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

  4. #94
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    Re: Evergreen Solar files for bankruptcy, plans asset sale

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Except they're lying.
    Conservatives are lying about the desire for free markets without over regulation by the government and without wasteful spending of our tax dollars?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Republicans are pushing hard for nuclear, despite it being one of the most coddled forms of energy out there.
    Really? Republicans are probably more supportive of nuclear than democrats are but I donít see a ďhardĒ bush by republicans for more nuclear energy. Donít post a link to a handful of congressmen who have made comments, if you are going to refute this, provide a link to the republican leadership pushing a bill or something that looks like ďpushing hardĒ.


    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    The US Government subsidies every kilowatt of nuclear to a degree similar to renewable at the same time as guaranteeing construction loans which severely reduce the amount of interest that otherwise would have been paid.
    I donít trust the liberal use of the terms subsidize or subsidies, donít believe your claim that the amount is similar to what is being invested in other renewable energies and doubt your claim about construction loans is accurate. Feel free to educate me.



    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    And if we priced in the costs of pollution from coal plants in a real free market rather then spread the cost among everyone else, coal would go up significantly.
    I see, you deal in abstracts rather than facts. Perhaps you have a peer reviewed article to accompany this externalized ďcostĒ you reference as though it were fact?



    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Republicans dislike the free market just as much as everyone else. They just lie about supporting it.
    I agree that republicans have been complete schmucks when it comes to the free market and that their words havenít matched their actions. There has been a groundswell of pressure within the grassroots of the party to change that recently. Havenít you noticed?

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

  5. #95
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    Re: Evergreen Solar files for bankruptcy, plans asset sale

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    The more partisan you are, the less you understand science and math.
    Interesting perspective. Are you a partisan or are you one who understands science and math?

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

  6. #96
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    Re: Evergreen Solar files for bankruptcy, plans asset sale

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    It's not just that. Most of them have no real grasp of science of any measurable amount.
    So liberals are educated and conservatives arenít? Or is this just another one of those sweeping and unsupported proclamations typical of your comments?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    So when they see an article they think supports their position as C-man just did, they all pile in.
    As opposed to liberal alarmists who are all educated, informed and restrained I presume.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    The problem is most of the time the articles they cite either don't actually have any data or don't support their position.
    This is probably true of both sides on this forum. Care to take me on in a moderated debate over AGW obvious Child?



    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    C-man's posted article already was pointed out to basically say that the discrepancies cannot be explained because the method of collecting the original and the current data aren't accurate. That basically tells us nothing.
    Iíll make a platinum donation to DP if you enter a moderated 1v1 debate with me on this issue and win.


    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    But since most of them simply do not understand science at all, they think it supports their positions. And because they do not understand science, when those who DO point it out, they lack the knowledge to understand the rebuttal.
    Can you point me to who you are referring to when you say ďthose who doĒ? Would you consider yourself among those who do?

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

  7. #97
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    Re: Evergreen Solar files for bankruptcy, plans asset sale

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I was reading an interesting article about Evergreen Solar the other day, and what caused its downfall. When the company was first formed, it succeeded because it invented a way to harvest solar power that avoided using expensive silicon and used cheaper alternative materials instead. But since then, the cost of using silicon in solar panels has fallen dramatically, and Evergreen's manufacturing process became a liability rather than an asset. That sucks for them, but it hardly indicates problems with solar power in general. Quite the opposite. We should be celebrating the fact that the cost of producing solar energy is dropping rapidly, on a Moore's Law-like trajectory. It's quite possible that some time within the next decade, it will reach price parity with dirtier forms of energy like coal/oil.
    I doubt the problem had as much to do with the price of silicon as it did/does the price of Chinese labor VS US union labor. I’d be willing to bet my house on it in fact.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

  8. #98
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    Re: Evergreen Solar files for bankruptcy, plans asset sale

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    I doubt the problem had as much to do with the price of silicon as it did/does the price of Chinese labor VS US union labor. Iíd be willing to bet my house on it in fact.
    It seems like solar energy isn't a very labor-intensive industry, so I'm not sure that's accurate. I mean, how much labor does it really take to make a solar panel? I would assume it's mostly an automated process. But I don't know that much about how solar panels are manufactured, so I could be wrong.
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  9. #99
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    Re: Evergreen Solar files for bankruptcy, plans asset sale

    GPS_Flex wrote:
    I’ll make a platinum donation to DP if you enter a moderated 1v1 debate with me on this issue and win.
    I would take you up on that, but instead of trying to get into a d*ck measuring contest, perhaps you could just explain why you think you're right about climate change and 97% of actual climatologists are wrong?

  10. #100
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    Re: Evergreen Solar files for bankruptcy, plans asset sale

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    GPS_Flex wrote:


    I would take you up on that, but instead of trying to get into a d*ck measuring contest, perhaps you could just explain why you think you're right about climate change and 97% of actual climatologists are wrong?
    So do we agree, in principle, to a 1v1 moderated debate or are you just blowing c02?

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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