Page 112 of 191 FirstFirst ... 1262102110111112113114122162 ... LastLast
Results 1,111 to 1,120 of 1902

Thread: Obama's Approval Rating Drops to Lowest Ever, According to Gallup

  1. #1111
    Sage
    AdamT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    17,773

    Re: Obama's Approval Rating Drops to Lowest Ever, According to Gallup

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    How is this true, especually given that almost half of the immediately following powers fall under 'general welfare'?


    Aside from the fact that the AF was created under the power to raise armies, and then seperated from the army under the power to organize the military... This just means you can argue that the USAF is unconstitutional, and thus, does nothing to counter anything I said.


    -And- you did not explain the necessary inclusion of the power to raise an army and navy, withouth which Congress could do no such thing.

    Thus, your response receives a solid F+
    Given the fact that you're on the wrong side of about 100 years of Supreme Court jurisprudence, I think you better give yourself an F-.

    When did every conservative become a constitutional scholar, btw?

  2. #1112
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    08-25-16 @ 08:31 PM
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    11,265

    Re: Obama's Approval Rating Drops to Lowest Ever, According to Gallup

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post

    How is this true, especually given that almost half of the immediately following powers fall under 'general welfare'?
    I've already pointed out how it's true by using the air force as an example.

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post

    Aside from the fact that the AF was created under the power to raise armies, and then seperated from the army under the power to organize the military...
    Which according to your nonsense, would make it unconstitutional for the Congress to fund.

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post

    This just means you can argue that the USAF is unconstitutional, and thus, does nothing to counter anything I said.
    Too funny. Ok, you go ahead and argue the air force is unconstitutional. Hey, maybe you can impeach Obama over that!

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post

    -And- you did not explain the necessary inclusion of the power to raise an army and navy, withouth which Congress could do no such thing.

    Thus, your response receives a solid F+
    Otay, like Conservative, you're on record as not liking my asnwer.

  3. #1113
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 03:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,272

    Re: Obama's Approval Rating Drops to Lowest Ever, According to Gallup

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    If it's semicolons you want, that section's full of 'em. There's a semicolon following each enumerated power, including the one about providing for the general welfare of the nation. So unless it's your misguided contention that each enumerated power is limited to the ones following each one them respectively, you might want to rethink that.
    Please tell me what a semi colon denotes? See I think you are intentionally misinterpreting the Constitution by taking the opening declarative statement, dropping off the enumerated clauses that they intended as the "General Welfare" of the nation, and trying to use a broad scope of General Welfare to be so ambiguous as to encompass anything, any program, any spending you want to do in an ever increasing government....That is misguided.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  4. #1114
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    08-25-16 @ 08:31 PM
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    11,265

    Re: Obama's Approval Rating Drops to Lowest Ever, According to Gallup

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post

    Please tell me what a semi colon denotes? See I think you are intentionally misinterpreting the Constitution by taking the opening declarative statement, dropping off the enumerated clauses that they intended as the "General Welfare" of the nation, and trying to use a broad scope of General Welfare to be so ambiguous as to encompass anything, any program, any spending you want to do in an ever increasing government....
    A semicolon is used break up sentences; stronger than a comma; weaker than a period.

    Tell me why you think the semicolon at the end of the first enumerated power is treated different than any of the other semicolons at the end of every other enumerated power?


    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post

    That is misguided.
    That has actually been upheld in every Supreme Court decission which was faced with the issue.

    What's misguided is claiming the first semicolon stores a hidden, different meaning (known only to Conservatives), than every other semicolon in Article I, Section 8.

  5. #1115
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    10-16-11 @ 03:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    1,845

    Re: Obama's Approval Rating Drops to Lowest Ever, According to Gallup

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    I've already pointed out how it's true by using the air force as an example.
    Which according to your nonsense, would make it unconstitutional for the Congress to fund.
    Yes. The USAF is unconstitutional.
    This does nothing to support your argument our counter mine.


    Further, you STILL have not explained the necessary inclusion of the power to raise an army and navy, withouth which Congress could do no such thing.

    Sooo... you still have a solid F+

  6. #1116
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    08-25-16 @ 08:31 PM
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    11,265

    Re: Obama's Approval Rating Drops to Lowest Ever, According to Gallup

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    Yes. The USAF is unconstitutional.
    This does nothing to support your argument our counter mine.


    Further, you STILL have not explained the necessary inclusion of the power to raise an army and navy, withouth which Congress could do no such thing.

    Sooo... you still have a solid F+
    Sorry, but debates aren't won by arguing the absurd, raising strawmen and by grading your opponent. ALL laws are Constsitutional until the U.S. Supreme Court deems otherwise. That's the daunting hurdle you face.

    the absurd: "The USAF is unconstitutional"

    The absurdity of that speaks for itself.

    The strawman: "you STILL have not explained the necessary inclusion of the power to raise an army and navy"

    That's a strawman because the first enumerated power is not limited to the ones which follow, as you portray. It's merely one of the enumerated powers. This is
    established law, even though you reject it.


    United States v. Butler, 1936

    Since the foundation of the Nation, sharp differences of opinion have persisted as to the true interpretation of the phrase. Madison asserted it amounted to no more than a reference to the other powers enumerated in the subsequent clauses of the same section; that, as the United States is a government of limited and enumerated powers, the grant of power to tax and spend for the general national welfare must be confined to the enumerated legislative fields committed to the Congress. In this view, the phrase is mere tautology, for taxation and appropriation are, or may be, necessary incidents of the exercise of any of the enumerated legislative powers. Hamilton, on the other hand, maintained the clause confers a power separate and distinct from those later enumerated, is not restricted in meaning by the grant of them, and Congress consequently has a substantive power to tax and to appropriate, [p66] limited only by the requirement that it shall be exercised to provide for the general welfare of the United States. Each contention has had the support of those whose views are entitled to weight. This court has noticed the question, but has never found it necessary to decide which is the true construction. Mr. Justice Story, in his Commentaries, espouses the Hamiltonian position. [n12] We shall not review the writings of public men and commentators or discuss the legislative practice. Study of all these leads us to conclude that the reading advocated by Mr. Justice Story is the correct one. While, therefore, the power to tax is not unlimited, its confines are set in the clause which confers it, and not in those of 8 which bestow and define the legislative powers of the Congress. It results that the power of Congress to authorize expenditure of public moneys for public purposes is not limited by the direct grants of legislative power found in the Constitution.


    The grade: "you still have a solid F+"

    Like the first one, this falls under the category of absurdity. That you believe you are even in a position to judge others is ridiculous enough, but that you think you can be objective against the one you are debating is beyond silly in terms of offering any validity to a grading system as it would be to school children allowed to grade themselves without the authority of a teacher.

  7. #1117
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    10-16-11 @ 03:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    1,845

    Re: Obama's Approval Rating Drops to Lowest Ever, According to Gallup

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Sorry, but debates aren't won by arguing the absurd, raising strawmen and by grading your opponent.
    Fact of the matter is, you have failed to address the argument that counters yours. Nothing -I- can to do change that.


    the absurd: "The USAF is unconstitutional"
    The absurdity of that speaks for itself.
    YOU argued that the USAF is unconstitutional, put up as a red herring to avoind the issue put to you.
    I simply agreed with you; the fact that you offered this as a red herring remains.

    The strawman: "you STILL have not explained the necessary inclusion of the power to raise an army and navy"
    This isn't a strawman as it speaks directly to the issue you present, that the power to spend monet to provide for the common defense and the general welfare inherently confers the power to do whatever is necessary to provide for the common defense and the general welfare.

    The fact that Congresss had to be specifically given the power to raise armies and create the navy and would not have been able to do so absent that grant negates your argument, in toto.

    Hamilton, on the other hand, maintained the clause confers a power separate and distinct from those later enumerated, is not restricted in meaning by the grant of them,
    Madson disagrees. Show, specifially, where the court explains how Hamilton's position is sound and Madison's is not.

    The grade: "you still have a solid F+"
    Like the first one, this falls under the category of absurdity.
    Well, lets see:
    -You refuse to address the argument that counters yours with anthing other than a red herring
    -You refuse to address a specific question regarding an issue absolutely necessary for your argument to be sound.

    No one with any degree of intellectual honesty whatsoever would describe -that- as anything other than a failure on your part.
    Last edited by PzKfW IVe; 08-27-11 at 07:26 PM.

  8. #1118
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    08-25-16 @ 08:31 PM
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    11,265

    Re: Obama's Approval Rating Drops to Lowest Ever, According to Gallup

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post

    Fact of the matter is, you have failed to address the argument that counters yours. Nothing -I- can to do change that.
    Umm, maybe you weren't paying attention, but not only did I address it, I pretty much clobbered it.

    Let me remind of the statement you made which you remain under the false impression went unanswered:


    "you STILL have not explained the necessary inclusion of the power to raise an army and navy, withouth which Congress could do no such thing." ~ PzKfW IVe


    First of all, my position is that is a strawman argument since I maintain it's a false statement; that being the necessity to include the specific powers of raising an army and a navy. My position is that it's not necessary which is why I believe the air force is constitutional.

    But to drive a nail into the proverbial coffin; to back up my position that the first two enumerated powers of common defense and general welfare are not limited to the enumerated powers which follow; I posted a U.S.S.C. decision from U.S. v. Butler in 1936 which makes my case. Did you not notice the text I highlighted got your convenience?

    • Hamilton, on the other hand, maintained the clause confers a power separate and distinct from those later enumerated, is not restricted in meaning by the grant of them

    • Mr. Justice Story, in his Commentaries, espouses the Hamiltonian position.



    • Study of all these leads us to conclude that the reading advocated by Mr. Justice Story is the correct one.

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post

    YOU argued that the USAF is unconstitutional, put up as a red herring to avoind the issue put to you.
    I simply agreed with you; the fact that you offered this as a red herring remains.
    To be clear, I maintain your position is wrong and it's constitutional for us to have an air force since that falls under the "common defense" clause.

    You're the one who believes the air force is unconstitutional. You even said so. Why don't you file a law suit to have it disbanded since that's what you believe?


    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post

    This isn't a strawman as it speaks directly to the issue you present, that the power to spend monet to provide for the common defense and the general welfare inherently confers the power to do whatever is necessary to provide for the common defense and the general welfare.
    Of course it's a strawman. You are taking Madison's position on this issue. I am taking Hamilton's position. The U.S. Supreme Court has sided with Hamilton's position.

    G'head, this is where you kvetch about the 1936 court.


    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post

    The fact that Congresss had to be specifically given the power to raise armies and create the navy and would not have been able to do so absent that grant negates your argument, in toto.
    Yet that's not a fact. It's a strawman. U.S. v. Butler confirms this.

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post

    Madson disagrees. Show, specifially, where the court explains how Hamilton's position is sound and Madison's is not.
    Regrettably, in their siding with Hamilton and Story they said, "We shall not review the writings of public men and commentators or discuss the legislative practice."

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post

    Well, lets see:
    -You refuse to address the argument that counters yours with anthing other than a red herring
    -You refuse to address a specific question regarding an issue absolutely necessary for your argument to be sound.

    No one with any degree of intellectual honesty whatsoever would describe -that- as anything other than a failure on your part.
    Maybe if you keep saying that over and over, someone will believe it.

    Your position is built on the foundation of the false premise that the first two enumerated powers are limited to those which follow.

    You are not the decider if that is true or not.

    I am not the decider if that is true or not.

    The U.S. Supreme Court IS the decider if that is true or not.

    And they decided.
    Last edited by Sheik Yerbuti; 08-28-11 at 05:13 PM.

  9. #1119
    Sage
    Conservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    67,249

    Re: Obama's Approval Rating Drops to Lowest Ever, According to Gallup

    Obama economic results in 2011, .4% GDP and 1% GDP growth in 2011, 25+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011, 4 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years, and a downgrade of the U.S. credit rating. Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.67. First President in U.S. History to have our credit downgraded on his watch! 38-41% JAR and well over 50% disapproval ratings.

  10. #1120
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    08-25-16 @ 08:31 PM
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    11,265

    Re: Obama's Approval Rating Drops to Lowest Ever, According to Gallup

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post

    Given the fact that you're on the wrong side of about 100 years of Supreme Court jurisprudence, I think you better give yourself an F-.

    When did every conservative become a constitutional scholar, btw?
    Did you notice not a single Conservative responded to your post?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •