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Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

Grant said:
It is much easier to control a corporation than it s a corrupt and powerful government.
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So I know folks on the right think that- that it is easier to control a corporation than a government- but I honestly have no idea how you guys could think that was true. It makes zero sense to me. The government is designed from the ground up to be under the control of the people. That's what voting is there for. There isn't anything like that at all for corporations... The best you can do is to stop buying a product if you happen to be one of their customers. If you aren't one of their customers there is nothing you can do, and even if you are a customer, stopping buying a product is nowhere near to the level of control that you get from actually picking the people in charge... I dunno. Maybe you can explain it to me.
 
LesGovt said:
No problem. We can add yours to the list of biased people who won't look at anything objectively. Again, not a problem.
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So the majority of teabaggers are socialists?
 
vauge said:
This is very true.


So let me see if I understand your point of view. You do not like the status quo, but you would rather deal with the status quo and defeat the GOP regardless of what you might actually believe is good for the country. One could argue that Obama is really Bush III and Bachmann/Romney/Perry are Bush IV. If you really want to change the status quo (for example, do the stuff that Obama promised but has not delivered) look at the only candidate who will. It sure as hell isn't any one mentioned above. Hint he came in second in that "irrelevant poll".
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SCOTUS is arguably the most powerful branch of government, so for me, changing 5-4 court to a 4-5 court in the most important issue.
 
LesGovt said:
I see that you buy into the two wrongs make a right morality. Interesting.
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Where do you get that? I'm just saying that if you're making a list of biased people who can't see objectively, they're on both sides. It's a big list.
 
LesGovt said:
Oh, I am sure that everything you say appears to be objective to you. Pshaw!
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How do we know you're the one who doesn't see this objectively?
 
teamosil said:
So I know folks on the right think that- that it is easier to control a corporation than a government- but I honestly have no idea how you guys could think that was true. It makes zero sense to me. The government is designed from the ground up to be under the control of the people. That's what voting is there for. There isn't anything like that at all for corporations... The best you can do is to stop buying a product if you happen to be one of their customers. If you aren't one of their customers there is nothing you can do, and even if you are a customer, stopping buying a product is nowhere near to the level of control that you get from actually picking the people in charge... I dunno. Maybe you can explain it to me.
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Which corporation do you feel is out of control and using it's influence in a negative way? The carte blanche distrust of corporations, which have been around forever, doesn't make any real sense that I can see.

The only corporations I know which have done something I believe to be underhanded were GM and Chrysler executives, all of whom fiddled with the government, public money, and to the profit of the fats cats and without regard its lesser shareholders. There should be a law against governments and corporations working together to screw the public but corporations on their own are of little threat whatsoever.


And the government is under the control of the people? That's certainly not so and becoming less true every day. They control most every aspect of our lives but because its incremental we hardly notice it at all. And all the control we give them is always for our own good. Or that's the way the argument goes anyway.
 
Grant said:
Which corporation do you feel is out of control and using it's influence in a negative way?
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Microsoft, Apple, most petroleum operations in Africa, Wal-Mart, Google, etc. The list goes on.
 
Grant said:
Which corporation do you feel is out of control and using it's influence in a negative way? The carte blanche distrust of corporations, which have been around forever, doesn't make any real sense that I can see.

The only corporations I know which have done something I believe to be underhanded were GM and Chrysler executives, all of whom fiddled with the government, public money, and to the profit of the fats cats and without regard its lesser shareholders. There should be a law against governments and corporations working together to screw the public but corporations on their own are of little threat whatsoever.
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It isn't about being underhanded or distrusting them or something. Corporations exist to make profit. That is their top priority. As it should be. But things that mean making more profit don't always align with the good of the people and sometimes it's exactly the opposite of the good of the people. For example, say you have a widget factory. You have two options for how to make the widgets. Process A costs you only $10 per widget, but means dumping a bunch of waste into the lake. Process B costs $13 per widget, but doesn't involve any dumping in the lake. Any corporation would choose process A. But, if dumping waste in the lake creates $10 in costs per widget- say lost property value for shore front property, lost fishing, increased water processing requirements for the town, whatever. So, process A is actually less efficient than process B when you take the whole picture in to account. That is one of government's main functions- to force corporations to pay for their own externalities. I don't know that the corporation would be being underhanded by dumping in the lake if it wasn't against the law, but nonetheless that is a behavior we need to control, right?

Virtually every corporation has situations like that. Maybe they would rather use less safe materials or they would rather provide unsafe working conditions or whatever. It isn't that they're like intentionally being evil, it's just that they are after profits above all else and the most profitable thing isn't always the best thing.

Grant said:
And the government is under the control of the people? That's certainly not so and becoming less true every day. They control most every aspect of our lives but because its incremental we hardly notice it at all. And all the control we give them is always for our own good. Or that's the way the argument goes anyway.
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Nonetheless, we have the vote. You might feel like the government isn't doing what you think it should, but that doesn't mean the people don't control the government. They most definitely do. Every 2 years we vote for our leaders. Those are the folks we picked in there.
 
LesGovt said:
Oh, I am sure that everything you say appears to be objective to you. Pshaw!
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Now you're just going in circles. Keep it up and you'll get dizzy.
 
Hatuey said:
Microsoft, Apple, most petroleum operations in Africa, Wal-Mart, Google, etc. The list goes on.
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How do you feel they are "out of control" ? What are they doing wrong?

Do you feel the government should do something about them? Should they be abolished?
 
Redress said:
So now the state owns the media. Interesting. How do you form your enlightened opinions?
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I recognize that the media acts in service of the State and that this need not require any direct ownership or control by the State.
 
LesGovt said:
And now we can also add your name to the biased people who cannot be objective. Wow! All in a matter of a few moments. Amazing!
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Hard to be objective about mouth-breathing racists.
 
Demon of Light said:
I recognize that the media acts in service of the State and that this need not require any direct ownership or control by the State.
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And the media does this why? Because "the media" just loves the government?
 
Wiggen said:
Hard to be objective about mouth-breathing racists.
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Wow! What a breath-taking overstatement. You just cannot stop yourself, can you?
 
Michele Bachmann Caught Lying About Family Reunion

Michele Bachmann is quite fond of repeating herself, but she may have put herself in hot water by lying again and again about her whereabouts on Sunday. On Fox News Sunday, she told Chris Wallace she was looking forward to her family reunion, saying, "We're having a big family reunion today in northeastern Iowa so I'll get to go and see all my relatives." Later when she was asked why she was late to the Black Hawk County Republican Party dinner in Waterloo, she referenced the reunion again and said she'd visited a "shut-in." Yet, two of her cousins and her own mother say she wasn't there.
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I read her campaign staff doubled down for her and clarified that she was at the other 'private' double secret family reunion... while her husband and children were at the first family reunion...
 
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