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Thread: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

  1. #271
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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Congress cannot participate directly in the administrative law process.
    Explain what this means and where in the Constitution it states it?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Restricting the EPA's scope of regulation is not oversight. It was punitive action. Oversight is also not a one time ocurrance but is constant. I don't want to blame anyone, I would rather see the problem fixed - two problems fixed actually:

    1.) Put the EPA under Congressional oversight
    2.) Put the Treasury under Congressional oversight

    Isn't it about time these bums in Washington earn their keep and do some work instead of compalining and bitching about each other on camera then turning around and making backroom deals off camera? Perhaps if we kept them busier they'd have less opportunity to think up new and inventive ways to screw the American people.
    You want congresspeople like figuring out the details of environmental regulations? That would be a total disaster... What do they know about it? They aren't even scientists....

    No, the role of Congress is to set general goals and make adjustments when something is going out of whack, not to micromanage everything.

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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Again, taking them to court means turning the issue over to the government to resolve... Court isn't an alternative to government, it IS government.

    But, how could private industry do those things? Private industry can't require other corporations to comply with anything or let them test anything or force them to release any information or whatever....
    I don't think anyone is denying that their are roles government can fulfill but we must give careful thought before we ever commit responsibilities to government.

    Was government ever intended to run banks? Auto companies? There are thousands of ways governments get involved in people lives where they have no business. Less government means a freer and more responsible people. No government can be just as dangerous.

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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Less government means a freer and more responsible people.
    I guess I just fundamentally disagree with that. In my experience, less government means less free and less responsible people. The most essential functions of government in my view are to stop corporations from oppressing people and to force corporations to take responsibility for damage they cause. That means fighting for freedom and responsibility.

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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Explain what this means and where in the Constitution it states it?
    It means that Congress passes laws and the executive branch passes regulations to implement those laws.

    "Article. I.

    Section. 1.

    All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives."

    "Article. II.

    Section. 1.

    The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America."

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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    It means that Congress passes laws and the executive branch passes regulations to implement those laws.

    "Article. I.

    Section. 1.

    All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives."

    "Article. II.

    Section. 1.

    The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America."

    Whut? No no... you misunderstood. Show me where it states in the constitution that "Congress cannot participate directly in the administrative law process".

    Let me point you to
    Article 1, Section 8: The congress shall have the power....

    To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into executing the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

    To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

    Therefore Congress CAN in fact make a law that would incorporate the EPA as a part of the Government and not an independent entity, and provide oversight. The EPA is not part of the Executive branch, it is an "Independent Agency".

    Official US Executive Branch Web Sites - Newspaper and Current Periodical Reading Room (Serial and Government Publications Division, Library of Congress)

    (scroll down, bottom left under "Independent Agencies")


    So, now that this is all cleared up, not only is it possible that Congress CAN legislate the EPA oversight, it SHOULD in my opinion as well.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  7. #277
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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Speaking for myself, the only problem with the status quo is that there are too many republicans in Congress, and the ones who are there are far too willing to sacrifice the good of the country in order to score a point against Obama.
    I concur. While I like Ron Paul's position of defense, I agree with him about nothing else.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by vauge View Post
    Would you buy heroin because it was cool? Does your belief system say that no-matter-what you will stay with the bank you have regardless if they screw you over? Hopefully the answer is no, but in your world you do not get to make those decisions. Your government does.

    Reality is actually quite the opposite. There are only 3 or 4 banks overall. We can't tell them to get lost if we wanted to. We walk down the street and it is just another subsidiary of the one we were at. However, we've become complacent. It is the role of the market to dictate what is best for everyone. Corps have more protection than we do from doing things that would otherwise shut them down in a New York minute. Were we to do them, we would go to jail. Gov is there to protect you, not make your *decisions* for you. Corporations are not bad, they are just overly protected and that needs to end. They do wrong because they can and they need to be held accountable for those wrongs.

    Having limits and rules and regulations are very good things when they make sense. Many libertarians are not advocating zero regulations/laws. Creating regulations and laws because they profit others is a very bad thing. For instance, private buying of raw milk is a federal law because it forces the population to purchase from an industry - that is just plain wrong in my book. I should be able to buy raw milk *and* from whomever I damn well chose.
    Because I do have respect for Ron Paul, unlike with Bachmann, I have taken the time to carefully review his policies platform on his website. I found nothing there I agree with but his defense platform. But, while I don't think he has a chance at to win either the nomination or the general election, I still admire him for his stance on defense and his honesty.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I guess I just fundamentally disagree with that. In my experience, less government means less free and less responsible people. The most essential functions of government in my view are to stop corporations from oppressing people and to force corporations to take responsibility for damage they cause. That means fighting for freedom and responsibility.
    I respect your opinion and you present good arguments, but from my point of view your position is very scary and part of the problem with our current system. The idea of overall regulation is good and grand in theory. Reality, IMO, is that it is very political and pockets always get filled with tax monies often with the premise of "health or overall good of the people". The only moral way to regulation is to remove that giant $$ handout temptation.
    If you analyse it, I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. -Ronald Reagan

    I am also known as "vauge".

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    Re: Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    Source: USA Today

    What is really impressive is that Paul was a mere 150 votes from winning himself. Unfortunately the fact he did not win gives the media an excuse to focus on the big win for Bachmann and the big loss for Pawlenty while completely glossing over the runner-up and the polls putting him third at 16% in Iowa.
    The one and only moderate with any independent voter appeal finished in the middle of the pack. It's not too early to call 2012 for Obama.

    Well done Tea Party, everything you touch turns to crap. Thanks for the AA rating BTW.

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